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. How someone else chooses to believe is not my business....
It should be your business if you see someone's belief causing harm. If it was my 'belief' that child pornography was acceptable or that gays should be executed or that black people were inferior to whites, would you make that your business?
Dont say " God wants us to have faith", because again, you simply answer my question of why God wants us to believe without evidence by responding "because God wants us to believe without evidence".
Faith is blind even myself as a Pagan can't PROVE to you that what I believe is real. Christians like to point out that the bible is proof of their God, but in the end the bible is just a book & nothing else.
It should be your business if you see someone's belief causing harm. If it was my 'belief' that child pornography was acceptable or that gays should be executed or that black people were inferior to whites, would you make that your business?
Don't take me out of context. I was specifically referring to matters of faith and beliefs regarding spiritual matters. The other things you mention are an entirely different thing. Plus I was also talking more about people who bring spiritual matters door to door. If I want to know what they believe I'll come to them. Please don't come hunting me sight unseen. Hope that clears that up some.
The other things you brought up are a totally different kettle of fish. I'm a peaceful sort these days. Much more so than I was in my youth, but there's still matters of common and individual good I'm willing to go to war over. You're talking about protecting innocents from bipreds in the matters you brought up. Something I feel strongly obligated to do. Fighting for those who can't fight for themselves is a doctrine I was raised in. That has nothing to do with private matters of spirituality. Mine or anyone elses. Faith, spirituality and duty are not intertwined with me. The things you mentioned I feel that everyone, all of us, as a society have a duty to stand in opposition to. Regardless of matters of faith.
If someones religious convictions sanction such things (which some may) that changes nothing in terms of societal opposition. Not sure exactly where you intended that to go, or why you put such a contentious tone to it. But there ya go. That is how I see it.
You aren't. Unless you pop in here posting god -claims, never mind saying that atheists are mistaken. If you won't then even defend you claims - it makes you look very poor indeed.
No, it makes me intelligent enough to recognize a fruitless endeavor. I posted a video of an Indian man being healed by a Christian man with a complete language barrier. I didn't even bother to see what the responses were. I already knew your kind would reject it as evidence. The fact is if atheists took the extreme hard nosed approach for evidence regarding anything in life, they would have to believe everything is a potential fraud.
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Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER
Well, no. In fact we have a number of parameters for defining God and the evidence for God, Jesus or Bible, but the problem is that to much ground has been lost and we are asking for what Religious apologetics can't supply - no more than flat earthists can now validate a flat earth, though they did a good job of fiddling the evidence to make a flat earth sound possible.
The evidence is out there if you want it. I have personally witnessed supernatural things that defy logic and reason, but there lies the problem. Every human being is a unique creation with a unique life journey. That is not true with ANY other species of animals. Because of that uniqueness, it's up to the individual to find that evidence and no two people will receive the same experiences. I once had a pastor friend who gave his life to Christ one day when he was alone in the hay field and the tractor rolled over pinning him. An angel came out of nowhere and raised the tractor and then disappeared in the field. Now I've never had an angel visit, but I've received evidence in other ways. I have no doubt that I serve the one true God. While I don't have all the answers, a lot of life makes perfect sense when you became born again. You understand why every human has an inner void that needs to be filled, a need to love and why fear is such a powerful paralyzing soul sucking force.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER
Translation into English God will only reveal himself to those who are already brainwashing themselves into belief. How do I now this? because those who have un-brainwashed themselves have explained how they deluded themselves into believing what was not believable.
Then how do you explain the conversion of someone like Lee Strobel? If you truly want to find God, you will discover Him. if you don't give a rip and just want an excuse to sin, then you won't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER
But if the god that we get is more the one that puts denial of evidence above acceptance of it, as a parameter for salvation, rather than how we live our lives, if he casually lets a believer be killed, struck by lightning, ruined or raped, just to see if their faith will hold, and sets up an elaborate system of eternal torture and then blames man for it -then atheists will respond to the hellthreat by saying, they cannot worship such a beast, not even under threat of torture.
Again, it is ignorant to throw down such judgments against God without having supreme knowledge of the universe as well as seeing into the future. We don't even have all the answers about the eternal torture. It could be a simple system where those who truly reject God will be erased from existence. Besides, if God created man then how can man have a better sense of morality than God? A bucket of water from dirty well doesn't hold cleaner water. It is just as dirty as the origin.
It should be your business if you see someone's belief causing harm. If it was my 'belief' that child pornography was acceptable or that gays should be executed or that black people were inferior to whites, would you make that your business?
this is embarrassing for an atheist like me.
we would have to do numbers and percentages. That is, believing something vs (what exactly?) and how it helps and hurts regular people. now over organized religion, indeed any over organized system, can be bad.
But you are denying anything to push your belief. how is that any different than other believers doing it? why? because your belief is better?
The problem is your forcing a less valid claim on others despite observation to the contrary. You are forcing it at this point. And when your religion gets the numbers you will lead a physical revolt just like they have in china, korea, and russia.
Faith is blind even myself as a Pagan can't PROVE to you that what I believe is real. Christians like to point out that the bible is proof of their God, but in the end the bible is just a book & nothing else.
why do we have to have blind faith? why can't we have commonsense faith?
No, it makes me intelligent enough to recognize a fruitless endeavor. I posted a video of an Indian man being healed by a Christian man with a complete language barrier. I didn't even bother to see what the responses were. I already knew your kind would reject it as evidence. The fact is if atheists took the extreme hard nosed approach for evidence regarding anything in life, they would have to believe everything is a potential fraud.
The evidence is out there if you want it. I have personally witnessed supernatural things that defy logic and reason, but there lies the problem. Every human being is a unique creation with a unique life journey. That is not true with ANY other species of animals. Because of that uniqueness, it's up to the individual to find that evidence and no two people will receive the same experiences. I once had a pastor friend who gave his life to Christ one day when he was alone in the hay field and the tractor rolled over pinning him. An angel came out of nowhere and raised the tractor and then disappeared in the field. Now I've never had an angel visit, but I've received evidence in other ways. I have no doubt that I serve the one true God. While I don't have all the answers, a lot of life makes perfect sense when you became born again. You understand why every human has an inner void that needs to be filled, a need to love and why fear is such a powerful paralyzing soul sucking force.
Then how do you explain the conversion of someone like Lee Strobel? If you truly want to find God, you will discover Him. if you don't give a rip and just want an excuse to sin, then you won't.
Again, it is ignorant to throw down such judgments against God without having supreme knowledge of the universe as well as seeing into the future. We don't even have all the answers about the eternal torture. It could be a simple system where those who truly reject God will be erased from existence. Besides, if God created man then how can man have a better sense of morality than God? A bucket of water from dirty well doesn't hold cleaner water. It is just as dirty as the origin.
I 1/2 agree with ya ... I don't think the big three's god is real ... but ... there is a point when we reach two ends of the same boob stick.
fundymental theist fighting millimental atheists.
slack jaw disbelief.
iIdon't pretend my side's mentals are normal. I mean we need cannon fodder, against your religion, but thats it.
IMO, we a part of nature. Until there is verifiable proof of a supernatural intelligent being, I will stay with what evidence/science we have to work with.
there is no super natural ... so that's out.
we are part of nature ... undeniable.
we are part of the biosphere ... undeniable
so how do we describe the system?
natural?
lets see how that works.
Question: "hey, whats that over there?"
Answer: "natural"
na, that answer is a run away at this point. Its time we be honest atheists at this point. There is no reason that we can't describe the biosphere as life. If we understand its a verb, then its alive.
so your claim is that statement does not match science's understanding?
Do you think That a claim of "the biosphere is not life." is more valid?
If someones religious convictions sanction such things (which some may) that changes nothing in terms of societal opposition. Not sure exactly where you intended that to go, or why you put such a contentious tone to it. But there ya go. That is how I see it.
the only way for literal theist and literal atheists to have anything locked in reality is to take us out of context. But really it not "out of context", its more of "past their understanding."
Their intention is to advance a belief at all costs. the pathological posters admit to such. It took me a while before I realized that some on my side were not representing science. They were not looking just to see how the universe works and to form beliefs based on those understandings.
Let me ask you this NV, do you think most people are capable of being anything other then what they think without serious self awarnes?
the only way for literal theist and literal atheists to have anything locked in reality is to take us out of context. But really it not "out of context", its more of "past their understanding."
Their intention is to advance a belief at all costs. the pathological posters admit to such. It took me a while before I realized that some on my side were not representing science. They were not looking just to see how the universe works and to form beliefs based on those understandings.
Let me ask you this NV, do you think most people are capable of being anything other then what they think without serious self awarnes?
No, actually. What someone is telling themselves they are tends to become a bit of a trap. Not realizing that one is in control has and is limiting many people to settle for less than what they could really be. Really being able to tap into our true potential does take serious self awareness. That includes unlocking all manner of things. Determination, focus, will power and a whole gamut of mental, and physical strengths.
Bringing out that sort of self awareness is certainly possible. It's a matter of really wanting it. Even so, it doesn't transform matter in some quantum manner. But it can elevate someone from mediocrity to greatness in the manner in which they choose it to. Peoples view of what is greatness varies radically and some, many, are quite happy with mediocrity in life.
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God will only reveal himself to those who are already brainwashing themselves into belief. How do I now this? because those who have un-brainwashed themselves have explained how they deluded themselves into believing what was not believable.
