Why does God hate animals?

[Timray]

Originally Posted by NVplumber

You rail at me when your problem would seem to be with God.'ve already stated that scripture s a very minor aspect of my Faith , and I don't believe that which is "God" has an arse to get up off of. You say you have no faith or belief in God, yet you curse Him as if He can hear you.

Maybe the cursing is rhetorical.

[bryan85]

Why do you ask questions as if your opinion is fact?

[NVplumber]

Originally Posted by Rafius

You have a bit of a 'chip on the shoulder' mate. Nobody is railing at you.

I have no problem with 'God'. I have no belief in your god. What I have a problem with is those that DO have a belief in 'God' and insist that those beliefs are true whilst offering no verifiable evidence for their claims and insisting that I believe them too.

...and yet it is supposed to be the b-all and end-all of the religion that you belong to.

Are we not supposed to be made in his image?

Atheists have no faith or belief in gods. What we 'curse' is not 'gods' but the cultural cancer that emerges from their followers. If someone came on here claiming that Bigfoot exists and detailing what Bigfoot is going to do and not do to us if we don't follow Bigfoot, I would be arguing against that bullcrap just like I do to the bullcrap from god-believers...even though I have no belief in Bigfoot.

Now get rid of that chip, stop being a delicate little flower who you think the big bad atheists are picking on (you'll sound like Jeff) and get stuck into the discussions. There is nothing personal but if you can't handle the heat, leave the kitchen, go feed the chickens and sit in your rocking-chair smoking your pipe.

Lol, no chip on me, and no lines in the dirt to spit across. And I'm hardly a delicate little flower. I certainly have no insistence that you or anyone else believe in my God and I haven't been nor am I going to try and prove anything to anyone where Faith in God or whatever one chooses to call the higher power they choose to believe in. Though I choose to consider myself Christian, I have been unable as yet to find irrefutable proof of the Word of God in scripture. As a somewhat loose historical text revolving around a certain group of people, replete with stories about how the Almighty influenced their rises and falls as a civilization the OT has some interesting aspects.


The NT I find more inspirational, and it is in that book I find more to believe in. Yet I still do not make it central to my Faith. My last post on the thread about arguments and experience explains that a bit. It's been experiences in my life that gave me every reason to give up on Faith, Hope and prayer yet still not doing so that have influenced me the most. A feeling that I get when every thing is telling me to turn back to my old ways. Where anger, violence and revenge were at the front of every thing I did. A time where Hope, Faith, prayer and above all Love were as alien to me as the surface of Mars.


Starting with my son being born, those things started working on me. Starting with Hope and Love. As he grew Faith came in and in a flash of inspiration one day, Christ showed up and gave me reason to pray. Then a bad time hit, and life bout beat me to a pile of goo. Then someone came into my life who I could only see as a gift from the Lord Himself. She gave me a purpose, and added to the Love in my life.


Then horrible things happened. Things that caused me to question my Faith and belief in Hope and prayer. Yet despite the temptation to return to my old ways I hung on. Because of Love. The bad things just kept coming. Up to just recently, like a relentless wind. We would fight and scratch and claw, seem to get to a place where Hope was tangible. Now, we've been knocked back yet again. In a big way. I have good reason to believe the cause of this stems from a couple certain people, and again I'm sorely tempted to let my demons off the leash and let them illicit some answers from some folks. But there's a power keeping that in check. It channels all that would be evil into something else. Keeps my lady and my connection alive and tells me I'm needed elsewhere. As the man I am, not the one I used to be. More so now than ever before.


Is this Christ speaking to me? I choose to believe so. I'm beginning to see that she who I love so much and I were brought together for a reason. Maybe not the one I originally thought, during the happy times we shared. Something far harder on the heart in the end I fear. But it's for her benefit, who needs it far more than me, that I'm in the middle of all this. Nobody deserves to hurt this way less than she does, and in the course of bringing her back, I must lose her (which is quite likely) and this is the price I must pay in Faith , Hope and Love that Christ needs from me to see her healed. Then I'll pay it.


There's nothing in scripture that gives me any comfort or reason that this must be so. Just a feeling. One that has me praying for the best but being ready for the worst. At least as far as my heart is concerned. If He needs me to prove I know what Love is, I reckon for her sake I'm ready to do so. Maybe the whole thing from start to finish was meant to be that way. Then again, maybe not. Faith tells me I'll know in the end. And then the end will be known.


I know all about taking the heat me bucko. I'm not a delicate flower so much as a goat head weed. Finding ways to grow in the most unlikely places because that's what I was put there to do. After all this time I'm finally seeing some purpose in why I'm here. I pray the result of all this sees her and I back together again, but if it can't be for the sake of her happiness, At least I know I played a part in that. His Will be done.

[Rafius]

Originally Posted by NVplumber

The NT I find more inspirational, and it is in that book I find more to believe in.

...and yet so much of is provably false.

My last post on the thread about arguments and experience explains that a bit. It's been experiences in my life that gave me every reason to give up on Faith, Hope and prayer yet still not doing so that have influenced me the most. A feeling that I get when every thing is telling me to turn back to my old ways. Where anger, violence and revenge were at the front of every thing I did. A time where Hope, Faith, prayer and above all Love were as alien to me as the surface of Mars.

So you are saying that, without your god belief, you would be not be a nice person and that it's only your god belief that is keeping you on the straight and narrow. That's a problem with your personality old mate. It's an interesting fact that we see so often on these boards...the number of 'Christians' that tell us that, without their Jesus, they would be really horrible people.

So let's analyse what you said above. Let's say that tomorrow we were presented with undeniable and verifiable evidence that gods do not exist. Evidence that you fully accepted to the extent that you are no longer theist. Are you telling us that you would immediately resort to being violent, angry, uncaring and abusive?

[Matadora]

Originally Posted by Rafius

Are you telling us that you would immediately resort to being violent, angry, uncaring and abusive?

Yes that is exactly what he has told us in at least two posts I read this evening.

Which is why this quote is 100% spot on!

[NVplumber]

Originally Posted by Rafius

...and yet so much of is provably false.

So you are saying that, without your god belief, you would be not be a nice person and that it's only your god belief that is keeping you on the straight and narrow. That's a problem with your personality old mate. It's an interesting fact that we see so often on these boards...the number of 'Christians' that tell us that, without their Jesus, they would be really horrible people.

So let's analyse what you said above. Let's say that tomorrow we were presented with undeniable and verifiable evidence that gods do not exist. Evidence that you fully accepted to the extent that you are no longer theist. Are you telling us that you would immediately resort to being violent, angry, uncaring and abusive?

My coming to Christ did change me. To be clear I wasn't an abusive person. Just had a vengeful and violet streak that caused me to react to certain situations by going straight for the throat when wronged. But I never reacted that way with a partner in a relationship and such. My self control I have now has as much to do with a maturation of common sense and a mellow in with age as with my Faith. My Faith is a reenforcement more than the main structure.

It does help though. 20 years ago if someone wrong me or mine I could be counted on to even the score. Between Faith and just good old common sense and maturity, I can let it go and have Faith those who did the wrong will get theirs without any help from me. And I stay where I'm truly needed and not in hancuffs.

[Rafius]

Originally Posted by NVplumber

My coming to Christ did change me. To be clear I wasn't an abusive person. Just had a vengeful and violet streak that caused me to react to certain situations by going straight for the throat when wronged. But I never reacted that way with a partner in a relationship and such. My self control I have now has as much to do with a maturation of common sense and a mellow in with age as with my Faith. My Faith is a reenforcement more than the main structure.

It does help though. 20 years ago if someone wrong me or mine I could be counted on to even the score. Between Faith and just good old common sense and maturity, I can let it go and have Faith those who did the wrong will get theirs without any help from me. And I stay where I'm truly needed and not in hancuffs.

Nothing 'special' there I don't think. I think most men on these boards will admit to having a feisty temper when they were young. It's the macho thing!

...but the question remains. If you decided tomorrow that gods do not exist, would you become a baby eating, raping, violent thug with absolutely no morals or scruples?