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It is the most important thing anyone can learn, it is the great mystery and most of the New Testament is about that very thing, the gentile who comes converting and repenting for his paganism comes under the promise that God would fill the ranks of Ephraim by the tens of millions, their numbers are as the sands of the sea when they will realise and return, great will be the day of Jezreel.
That's what Jesus originally did, he offered gentiles a betrothal that if they would reject the ways of other God's and accept the ways of God, they come under the promise of Hosea 2 that a betrothal to a Jew would redeem them into Israel IF they will do as Ephraim must do, and that is to accept the ways of God in the same religion as Jews.
Being that Romans is missunderstood, most people never realise what is being said, the same thing is shown in the prodigal son as being the prodigal nation of Ephraim who went to herd swine and became as a dead man because of it, to herd wine is just showing high disrespect for the Torah and the word of the father, as gentiles they return asking only to be servants.
It is the great mystery explained in many ways but it is lost on people who don't know the actual history of Ephraim and Judah.
Interesting, never saw that parable in that light...Makes sense, tho...
Which copies are they?...There is a well educated Jew on here that could point out to you the edited and mistranslated parts...They seem to be the parts that would support the writings of the New Testament, however, compare them to the Hebrew and something doesn't add up...I wasn't deflecting...
Jewish study Bible from the JPS.
The 5 books of Moses... everett fox
And
Commentary on the Torah... Richard elliot Friedman
Quote:
I haven't had a belief in a static G-d in a long time, so nothing to rethink...
That is good, however if God knows everything that man will ever do each minute of the day and it is all predestined there is no need for God to do anything but sit back and watch. IE a static God.
However, this is not what Paul says in Romans 9...If that were the case then why would that which was formed say to Him who formed it, "why did you make me this way?" and "why would it say then why does He still find fault, for who can resist His council?"...This all leads up to Paul's idea of the Elect of G-d...Also, "It is not him who desires nor him who runneth..."....
No dude, you have it all wrong. Paul was a member of the northern tribes of Israel who were lost in 722 b.c., and he tells us this in Romans 9. Romans is in fact explaining the end of the house of Israel, Paul is in fact, not speaking about Jews.
Paul is showing that the house of Israel called the Torah a strange thing and God ended them for this, but in Hosea where God says he would end the ten tribes, he says that after they become gentiles, they will be grafted in Israel.
Romans 9 24Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? {EVEN US, NOT JEWS, EVEN US, WE OF THE NORTHERN KINGDOM WHO TURNED GENTILES}
EVEN US, LOST TRIBES
25As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people{GENTILES}; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
God grafted gentiles through the promise spoken in Hosea to the ten lost tribes who became gentiles.
Paul was a Benjamite of the Northern kingdom, and he is IN FACT showing himself to be one of those 7000 reserved in Israel and found living amongst Judah, and these 7000 are not Jews, they are Israel, and this is why Paul says,'' EVEN US, NOT ONLY THE JEWS.''
All of that speech is how God chose Ephraim for destruction and they were destroyed save those 7000, and those 7000 have NOTHING to do with Jews.
Elijah was sent to Ahab and Jezebel in the Northern kingdom not the Southern kingdom of Jews. Elijah confronted them and then went to God saying,'' DEAR LOR, I am the only one in the northern kingdom who is still serving you.''
But God informed Elijah there was 7000 still in Israel who did not become pagan and just after God tells Elijah of these 7000, we see Ahab gather these very 7000 men.
Romans 9 has NOTHING TO DO WITH JEWS, Paul is not speaking of Jews, he is speaking of the ten lost tribes that was ended and how he was one of those 7000.
Paul and all of the disciples were Israelites from the Northern kingdom, The priesthood did not fall to Gentiles, it fell to Israelites from the Northern kingdom found living amongst Judah.
The problem I have with this however is that it is elitism. God is the God of Israel and only Israel is saved. Thus the rest of mankind can go to hell in a hand basket.
The problem I have with this however is that it is elitism. God is the God of Israel and only Israel is saved. Thus the rest of mankind can go to hell in a hand basket.
No they don't, what you have is a perverted sense of hell because Christianity rejected all the feasts and traditions of God along with the idioms spoken about hell.
Jesus came and brought a new covenant for Ephraim and for Judah, and Ephraim are gentiles who come to be one with Jews as co-heirs under the promise given to the ten lost tribes.
These ARE an elite group, and the two will come together in the day of Jezreel and they will put every nation in their place.
God doesn't exclude you from this covenant, nor can he force you into it.
But just because you aren't Ephraim or Judah doesn't mean you are going to some hell. Those scriptures of hell pertain to the feast of Tabernacles and whether or not you receive the rain of Tabernacles.
The people who receive the rain become immortals, and there will be other people who are strengthened but not like Ephraim and Judah.
The kingdom will come to Judah and Ephraim and they will rule, others will serve.
In the end, there can be no Ephraim, Ephraim comes repenting for his paganism to become one with Judah and there will never again be two nations.
No they don't, what you have is a perverted sense of hell because Christianity rejected all the feasts and traditions of God along with the idioms spoken about hell.
Jesus came and brought a new covenant for Ephraim and for Judah, and Ephraim are gentiles who come to be one with Jews as co-heirs under the promise given to the ten lost tribes.
These ARE an elite group, and the two will come together in the day of Jezreel and they will put every nation in their place.
God doesn't exclude you from this covenant, nor can he force you into it.
But just because you aren't Ephraim or Judah doesn't mean you are going to some hell. Those scriptures of hell pertain to the feast of Tabernacles and whether or not you receive the rain of Tabernacles.
The people who receive the rain become immortals, and there will be other people who are strengthened but not like Ephraim and Judah.
The kingdom will come to Judah and Ephraim and they will rule, others will serve.
In the end, there can be no Ephraim, Ephraim comes repenting for his paganism to become one with Judah and there will never again be two nations.
It was a figure of speech HF, there is no hell like the fundy hell.
And this still smacks of elitism. The gentiles Paul was sent to are not the lost 10 tribes.
It was a figure of speech HF, there is no hell like the fundy hell.
And this still smacks of elitism. The gentiles Paul was sent to are not the lost 10 tribes.
WE are talking about Romans 9, Paul is explaining how Gentiles of the lost ten tribes are grafted into Ephraim when Gentiles come to the religion of God to repent of following other God's.
God had ended their kingdom and told them,'' You are not my people/Gentiles.''
But after they had been taken into the nations and become gentiles, God promises them a betrothal and Jesus came with that Betrothal when John, the friend of the bridegroom was sent out to prepare gentiles to marry a Jew. They had sat in darkness for 700 years until they saw a great light in Galilee of the Nations, Galilee is the land of Ephraim, Joseph's land.
Where God had said to them in the land of Ephraim,'' You are not my people,'' they have become the sons of the living God.
Here is the promised betrothal in Hosea
God's Mercy to Israel 14Therefore, behold, I will allure her, and bring her into the wilderness, and speak comfortably unto her. 15And I will give her her vineyards from thence, and the valley of Achor for a door of hope: and she shall sing there, as in the days of her youth, and as in the day when she came up out of the land of Egypt. 16And it shall be at that day, saith the LORD, that thou shalt call me Ishi; and shalt call me no more Baali. 17For I will take away the names of Baalim out of her mouth, and they shall no more be remembered by their name. 18And in that day will I make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven, and with the creeping things of the ground: and I will break the bow and the sword and the battle out of the earth, and will make them to lie down safely. 19And I will betroth thee unto me for ever; yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies. 20I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness: and thou shalt know the LORD. 21And it shall come to pass in that day, I will hear, saith the LORD, I will hear the heavens, and they shall hear the earth; 22And the earth shall hear the corn, and the wine, and the oil; and they shall hear Jezreel. 23And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people; and they shall say, Thou art my God.
It is a difficult thing to know all the history of Israel and Judah so that you can separate the two. For 2000 years people have been quoting the sins of Ephraim to put them on the head of Judah, But Israel/Ephraim have never been Judah, they were NEVER Jews and most people do not know this.
The Kingdom of Ephraim called the Torah a strange thing, they rejected Jerusalem and changed the feasts to separate from Judah. Their past shows the future of Christianity. The same feasts that Christianity instituted were the same pagan feasts that Israel instituted and because they did this, God ended their kingdom and called them gentiles,'' Not his people.''
Hosea says that God will never give up on Judah but he gave up on Israel, but they are promised a return where their numbers will be much greater than Judah, their numbers will be as the sands of the seas.
A person not knowing the history of Ephraim and who they are, they are missing out on the understanding of much of the New Testament because much of what is said, is said about Gentiles being grafted through Ephraim, NOT JUDAH.
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