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Not true if God knows all. If he knows all, then my choices have already been made, and nothing I do will change that, even if I THINK it will, or can.
You seem to think I am religious. I am not. I fully believe in free will, and take ALL responsibility for my actions. I don't blame the devil or God for anything either, good or bad. I am merely talking in hypotheticals here, T. IF the God you believe in is real, he is either all knowing (meaning we don't have free will), or he isn't (preserving free will, but making the Bible's claim of God being all knowing false).
It is impossible for him to be all knowing, and for us to have free will. If the path is set, and he knows what will happen, even if we believe we are making our own choices, we aren't.
That isn't a problem if you don't see your God as knowing the outcome. It does, however, call several things into question, such as the veracity of the Bible.
you don't do G*d. OK.
you don't get how G*d can be all knowing. OK.
then there is no point in discussing G*d and the Bible with you.
OK.
you don't do G*d. OK.
you don't get how G*d can be all knowing. OK.
then there is no point in discussing G*d and the Bible with you.
OK.
Well, there certainly isn't a point in having a conversation with you if you just pick up your ball and leave when you can't answer a question, that is for sure. Your dislike for me "not doing God" is noted. I wasn't aware you were that kind of fundamentalist, but I guess I was wrong.
The fact is, I don't know God. Neither do you. Neither does anyone else alive on this planet. You may THINK you do, but you don't know anymore than the next person. Your human ego may tell you otherwise, but you aren't special. You don't have inside knowledge. You don't know anymore about a God than a slumdog in Mumbai or a billionaire in Russia.
The fact is, if God is all knowing, then he knows what I am going to do next, which means there is no free will, since it has already been determined. The FACT that you don't understand that changes nothing. The FACT that you are afraid to face that tells me all I need to know about you. That you are nothing more than a fundamentalist who will not do any thinking if it may take them to a place other than where they want to be.
Last edited by ImissThe90's; 05-12-2017 at 03:50 PM..
Well, there certainly isn't a point in having a conversation with you if you just pick up your ball and leave when you can't answer a question, that is for sure. Your dislike for me "not doing God" is noted. I wasn't aware you were that kind of fundamentalist, but I guess I was wrong.
The fact is, I don't know God. Neither do you. Neither does anyone else alive on this planet. You may THINK you do, but you don't know anymore than the next person. Your human ego may tell you otherwise, but you aren't special. You don't have inside knowledge. You don't know anymore about a God than a slumdog in Mumbai or a billionaire in Russia.
The fact is, if God is all knowing, then he knows what I am going to do next, which means there is no free will, since it has already been determined. The FACT that you don't understand that changes nothing. The FACT that you are afraid to face that tells me all I need to know about you. That you are nothing more than a fundamentalist who will not do any thinking if it may take them to a place other than where they want to be.
The question has been answered and is understood by those who recognize both G*d and free will. I have no desire to convince you of anything or prove anything to you or change your beliefs. Your beliefs are an expression of your free will.
It does not matter to me one way or another what your feelings are for the Divine. That's not my business. I am not able to explain my understanding in a way that is acceptable to you and that is my shortcoming. Nevertheless we have free will and G*d sees all occurrences past present and future at the same time because in reality there is only now and time is an artificial construct.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 05-12-2017 at 05:37 PM..
The question has been answered and is understood by those who recognize both G*d and free will. I have no desire to convince you of anything or prove anything to you or change your beliefs. Your beliefs are an expression of your free will.
It does not matter to me one way or another what your feelings are for the Divine. That's not my business. I am not able to explain my understanding in a way that is acceptable to you and that is my shortcoming. Nevertheless we have free will and G*d sees all occurrences past present and future at the same time because in reality there is only now and time is an artificial construct.
I certainly understand I miss 90s unless I guess your assertion that there is no time under God and the future and the past occurring at the same time. This presents a logic problem for us non believers in that any questioning of what does not make sense is explained away as God operates under everything differently and therefore anything can be explained away. But that would also work for all the other Gods as well. But if I understand you correctly the decision that I am going to make next January under my own free will is already known to him.
If heaven did actually exist (highly unlikely) "god" could send everyone to heaven. Heaven would be great for the people that want to live under gods thumb and follow his rules and heaven would be hell for everyone that does not want to live by them rules. I could not imagine spending all of eternity living under the rule of such a dictator that is god.
Depends on your theology or lack of one. Some of us who believe in "God" believe when you die you die and await resurrection to an earth that was originally intended for mankind. Some aren't resurrected (YOLO) but no one will be conscious to know any different. No hell or fiery torment. A few go to "heaven" as indicated by John, one of the apostles, in the Book of Revelation to be co-rulers. The benefit is if you are going to "govern" over people you should have first hand knowledge what it's like to live as an everyday person. So one can imagine living under a benevolent rule in peace.
As off center as my belief system is in the biblical (Christian sense). I do think he!! Exist upon this earth, so we are aware. Heaven though..Is yet to be revealed. I certainly cringe at the god of the old testament. Which perhaps leads me to have more devotion to Jesus. He carried grace,solice,refuge.
And thank you to those who gave food for thought. I will have to do some soul searching on God presetting us up.
Yes, it does. This isn't hard to understand. If he knows what you will choose, then it is already determined. That means you can't change it, which mean you have no free will. If you did, you would be able to change what happens. If it is already known, it can't be changed.
Do you not see that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImissThe90's
What does time have to do with this? If God knows the outcome, then the outcome is set. You aren't deciding anything. You only have the illusion that you are. Time is irrelevant in this discussion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImissThe90's
Not true if God knows all. If he knows all, then my choices have already been made, and nothing I do will change that, even if I THINK it will, or can.
You seem to think I am religious. I am not. I fully believe in free will, and take ALL responsibility for my actions. I don't blame the devil or God for anything either, good or bad. I am merely talking in hypotheticals here, T. IF the God you believe in is real, he is either all knowing (meaning we don't have free will), or he isn't (preserving free will, but making the Bible's claim of God being all knowing false).
It is impossible for him to be all knowing, and for us to have free will. If the path is set, and he knows what will happen, even if we believe we are making our own choices, we aren't.
That isn't a problem if you don't see your God as knowing the outcome. It does, however, call several things into question, such as the veracity of the Bible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImissThe90's
Well, there certainly isn't a point in having a conversation with you if you just pick up your ball and leave when you can't answer a question, that is for sure. Your dislike for me "not doing God" is noted. I wasn't aware you were that kind of fundamentalist, but I guess I was wrong.
The fact is, I don't know God. Neither do you. Neither does anyone else alive on this planet. You may THINK you do, but you don't know anymore than the next person. Your human ego may tell you otherwise, but you aren't special. You don't have inside knowledge. You don't know anymore about a God than a slumdog in Mumbai or a billionaire in Russia.
The fact is, if God is all knowing, then he knows what I am going to do next, which means there is no free will, since it has already been determined. The FACT that you don't understand that changes nothing. The FACT that you are afraid to face that tells me all I need to know about you. That you are nothing more than a fundamentalist who will not do any thinking if it may take them to a place other than where they want to be.
No, I don't think you understand the problem or question.
If God KNOWS what I am going to do next, then I can't change that. It would be preordained. I could have the illusion of making a decision, but it would already be determined. If God is all knowing, then he KNOWS what comes next, meaning there is no such thing as free will, meaning he created me as a non believer, thus, if you believe in hell, means he created me for the sole purpose of ending up in hell for eternity. That makes ZERO sense to anyone with an above room temp IQ.
So the question is, does God know all, or not? If he does, then there is no such thing as free will. If he doesn't, then the Bible claiming he does is false.
That would depend on what you mean by God knowing everything. For myself I see God being all knowing and us having free will and the two being compatible.
I certainly understand I miss 90s unless I guess your assertion that there is no time under God and the future and the past occurring at the same time. This presents a logic problem for us non believers in that any questioning of what does not make sense is explained away as God operates under everything differently and therefore anything can be explained away. But that would also work for all the other Gods as well. But if I understand you correctly the decision that I am going to make next January under my own free will is already known to him.
In all honesty, it is possible you have free will. Assuming there is an all knowing god, he may know which of two different outcomes you will choose next January. He may know that you converted to Christianity or that you stayed strong in your current belief. He may know what color car you bought, when now you can't decide between blue or red. Your free will may finally decide red.
None of this is the important question. What is important is that this all knowing god chose to go ahead and create billions of humans knowing he would either destroy them or torment them for eternity. I could have remained a Christian if his plan were to annihilate the unsaved and that he had no interaction with humanity until his end game.
I'm atheist today because the only foundation we have of his possible existence is a flawed book depicting a flawed god.
G*d sees all occurrences past present and future at the same time because in reality there is only now and time is an artificial construct.
This sounds like a Christian concept...
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