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Old 05-19-2017, 11:47 AM
 
4,413 posts, read 1,640,943 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by personne View Post
And also, contrary to some religious people, I didn't make absolute statements.

I tried to only talk about what atheists believe, or I at least. There is no group of ours.
Not trying to play with semantics but now you got it right.

The keywords are "belief" vs "having the knowledge" of after life.

You and I have two different "BELIEFS" where you believe that there is no after life, and I believe that there IS after life.

None of us have the actual knowledge of it. We don't really "know it".

So in a sense, we both are "believers". It's just that our beliefs are different.

Comes back to what I said, "We shall wait and we will see".
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Old 05-19-2017, 11:50 AM
 
4,413 posts, read 1,640,943 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by personne View Post
I don't understand the question?

WHY would living life as I said be even remotely related to drunk driving?
Which life are you talking about? Give us a few examples.

Why don't you drive 100 miles an hour on local roads? Why do you make a stop at red light? Why don't you put your hand in fire? Why don't you jump in a swimming pool during cold winter? Looks like you live in fear, don't you?
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Old 05-19-2017, 01:09 PM
 
39,035 posts, read 10,825,389 times
Reputation: 5082
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
In which case, you should be able to toss the bucket of stones in the air and it should land on the concrete forming the spelling of your name. Or at least form a shape of a circle or a square or a triangle?
Of course, not, but, as i showed in he 'hubcap' analogy, if ther are natural forces to shape matter, you'll get the shape.

Quote:
We know that an uncontrolled explosion results only in chaos. The bucket experiment proves it.

How can the explosion of a big bang resulted in such a design of the universe, if big bang was an uncontrolled explosion?
The Big bang is a handy title for what was more an ordered unfolding. Not an uncontrolled explosion. And even if it was an uncontrolled explosion leaving a chaotic mass of matter, natural forces would start to bring the matter together into order.

Quote:
Obviously, being an Atheist, it would be illogical for you to assume that big bang was actually a controlled explosion.
If you take the trouble to read up on the 'Big bang' you'll see that an uncontrolled explosion is not the hypothesis. I assume nothing -I just read about it.

Quote:
Again, a believer looks for signs of God when he is out to search for one, not the evidence.
I'm quite sure that's what they do. They talk of joining o dots, but what they actually do is start with a mental picture and pick he dots that fit it - or near enough.

Quote:
OK we won't go there.
I forgot where we weren't going. Oh yes the evolution (as it were) of complex material features by chemical processes driven by thermodynamics. It really is rather lengthy to explain and too sciencey for the religion section. Suffice it, that there is less mystery about the formation of complex matter than there was.

Quote:
Obviously, you are not "required" or being forced to say it was done by God of some certain religion. You have used your logic and intelligence, and you have arrived at your conclusion. There is no compulsion on you or me if we have arrived at two different conclusions. You stick with yours and I will stick with mine.
Agree to differ eh? hat's ok. I shall continue to put the case for no good reason o believe in a god, far less to believe in any particular god and very reason Not to believe in the Holy Books.

Quote:
If you know that this won't happen then how do you know the spiral design was formed on it's own. The galaxies did not take any instructions from any DNA, did they?
No, but they possess gravity. Gravity pulls matter together into stars. There was an article I read some months ago that explained how gravitational forces form spiral galaxies. Gravity is all you need -not gods.

Quote:
so you do agree with Einstein that there is a "force" out there??
No - not in he way he meant. While he had no time for personal gods or religion (you can check that for yourself) he does appear to have believed in an ordered force behind natural processes and something close to agnostic -god. his led him to reject Quantum mechanics as he would not accept hat "God plays dice". This led o him wasting the rest of his life trying to disprove what we now know to be correct. This "god" was perhaps the only time he let Faith overrule evidence, and see what little good it did him.

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 05-19-2017 at 01:25 PM..
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Old 05-19-2017, 01:32 PM
 
39,035 posts, read 10,825,389 times
Reputation: 5082
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
Not trying to play with semantics but now you got it right.

The keywords are "belief" vs "having the knowledge" of after life.

You and I have two different "BELIEFS" where you believe that there is no after life, and I believe that there IS after life.

None of us have the actual knowledge of it. We don't really "know it".

So in a sense, we both are "believers". It's just that our beliefs are different.

Comes back to what I said, "We shall wait and we will see".
I'm inclined to agree. Neither of us know about an afterlife. I think there are some arguments against an afterlife and some for it. None of them really amount to a solid case.

I just say that not knowing on lack of evidence does not = knowing on faith, and I think that is a good case for saying that, whatever afterlife there may be, it is nothing to worry about, and no reason o sign up to any of the particular religions being peddled through "You will burn if you don't believe' hellthreat.
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Old 05-19-2017, 02:52 PM
 
8,600 posts, read 3,833,377 times
Reputation: 1918
Quote:
Originally Posted by personne View Post
That's EXACTLY what humans used (and still do) to think about each other.

Well, all negroes look alike, these chinks too.

They are very different. Please, educate yourself.

They are not different. I can go out and get a lab dog and know exactly how he will look and act. If you want to dehumanize people and call us animals then that's your opinion and only an opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by personne View Post


And as for science creating life from non life, it already exists! Look up stem research. Unless you think a cell is life of course.
A stem cell still comes from something already living. Not the same thing.
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Old 05-19-2017, 03:25 PM
 
13,481 posts, read 4,986,806 times
Reputation: 1365
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
They are not different. I can go out and get a lab dog and know exactly how he will look and act. If you want to dehumanize people and call us animals then that's your opinion and only an opinion.



A stem cell still comes from something already living. Not the same thing.
we copy. no doubt about it. Even the experiment that produced life was set up by the experimenter. but don't tell anybody I told you.

They "created life" with like 4 genes, I think it was four, but again reverse engineering.

but none of this proves a god with the traits of "poof there it is"

your emotional "awe" does not lead me to a conclusion with omni guy.

maybe "it" was born with the universe and we are just a by product of that life. In fact, That is a more reasonable bet then a finger clicking wizard that looks like a middle aged european. "middle ages as in time period.
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Old 05-19-2017, 03:26 PM
 
4,413 posts, read 1,640,943 times
Reputation: 1529
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post

No, but they possess gravity. Gravity pulls matter together into stars. There was an article I read some months ago that explained how gravitational forces form spiral galaxies. Gravity is all you need -not gods.
.
I think this is an interesting one that warrants a comment.

So you read a claim and you believed in it without demanding an evidence? Good for you!

You are on the path of using faith.
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Old 05-19-2017, 03:33 PM
 
13,481 posts, read 4,986,806 times
Reputation: 1365
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
Not trying to play with semantics but now you got it right.

The keywords are "belief" vs "having the knowledge" of after life.

You and I have two different "BELIEFS" where you believe that there is no after life, and I believe that there IS after life.

None of us have the actual knowledge of it. We don't really "know it".

So in a sense, we both are "believers". It's just that our beliefs are different.

Comes back to what I said, "We shall wait and we will see".
this is where we diverge. When we list the observations we do have, none of it leads to "after". So your belief of something is based on nothing. because we have nothing.

my belief of "no more me" is because nobody has ever can back and there is no "coherent group of interactions" that has been seen that represents past people.

Your belief is based on "we don't know so I believe in afterlife."

can you see the difference?
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Old 05-19-2017, 04:21 PM
 
4,413 posts, read 1,640,943 times
Reputation: 1529
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
this is where we diverge. When we list the observations we do have, none of it leads to "after". So your belief of something is based on nothing. because we have nothing.

my belief of "no more me" is because nobody has ever can back and there is no "coherent group of interactions" that has been seen that represents past people.

Your belief is based on "we don't know so I believe in afterlife."

can you see the difference?
Are you saying you DO know that there is no after life?
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Old 05-19-2017, 04:58 PM
 
Location: Dallas,Texas
1,378 posts, read 1,466,949 times
Reputation: 1480
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClementofA View Post
Is there any proof that the Bible is not 100% man made?
None whatsoever. The writer(s) couldn't even get the account of Genesis to be consistent much less the gospels agreeing on details of the tomb story of this Jesus figure. Man made book for sure.
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