U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-17-2017, 07:59 AM
Status: "Summertime, and the living's easy" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: The Eastern Shore
2,047 posts, read 581,316 times
Reputation: 1108

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
It starts with the question whether you want to find God and his guidance to provide you with a purpose of your life?
This is the most telling thing about you, GoCardinals.


All you are saying in this post, is "If you WANT to believe, then you will see all sorts of evidence!". That is confirmation bias, buddy. You are starting with what you want the answer to be, and then finding evidence to support it. It would be like me starting with WANTING Bigfoot to be real, and then believing all evidence that would support it. It would be like me WANTING to believe that Pinto's were great cars, and then pointing to the ones that didn't blow up as proof, while ignoring the ones that blew up.


Point is, that is NOT how you find proof or evidence of something. You start with a questions like, "Is God real? If he is, is it this certain, specific God?", not "I want to believe in God, and I want it to be this God, so therefore I will search for nothing but things that support it, and ignore everything that doesn't."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-17-2017, 08:20 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma
2,186 posts, read 789,666 times
Reputation: 1004
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryan85 View Post
If you are looking for "scientific" proof, you'll never find it. Without The Holy Spirit in your heart, it will never make sense. The choice is yours.
You're proposing nothing that does not have to occur believing in any religion or philosophy. Inviting the Holy Spirit is no different than taking a placebo pill. It only says you want to believe for no rational reason. That's why they call it faith. You are welcome to your faith, but you cannot honestly claim there is any proof for your God. The Holy Spirit placebo does not magically make the Bible a factual document or the abrahamic god real.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-17-2017, 08:46 AM
 
13,450 posts, read 4,976,974 times
Reputation: 1363
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryan85 View Post
If you are looking for "scientific" proof, you'll never find it. Without The Holy Spirit in your heart, it will never make sense. The choice is yours.
I would say you need the holy spirit in your heart to see the bible in its proper context. Non literal, anti-literal-religion, and never to be used as a weapon against anybody.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-17-2017, 08:48 AM
 
13,450 posts, read 4,976,974 times
Reputation: 1363
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
Again, same old story.

You cannot define what would you consider as a proof or evidence?
And how will you validate the proof/evidence using all existing knowledge of all humanity combined. You can't!

This is NOT how it works in the matters of faith.

It starts with the question whether you want to find God and his guidance to provide you with a purpose of your life?

1 - If the answer is "No". Then stop right here. Because with this mindset, no matter what proof and/or evidence is presented to you, you will always find a way to reject or dismiss it.

Even if God comes down to meet you as a proof, you will probably say, "This can't be real, I am dreaming."

So whenever a person demands a proof in the matters of faith, you should know right away that he is not lookng for God.

Believing in God is faith, and faith is not based on proof and evidence.

2 - If your answer is Yes. Then you take a journey to find and analyze the SIGNS of God. (Looking and searching for SIGNS of God versus demanding the evidence of God - see the difference between the two approaches?).

You use your intelligence, logic and common sense during the study of holy text under your research - be it Bible, Torah, Quran, Gita or whatever.

And you let your heart answer the question, "Is it the truth?"

This should help you figure out what talks to your heart and you form your faith from there.

Whether there is an evidence that Bible is the word of God, is NOT the question.
After studying and analyzing it using your intelligence logic and common sense, does the Bible talk to your heart IS THE QUESTION!


If the answer is no, continue your journey to studying and analyzing all other holy books, and see if you receive the call from your heart?

It ALL comes down to how you answer THAT question. Refer to the underlined above.

Those who demand evidence, will perhaps never find one (because no one ever has), till the bell rings and the last curtain falls on their eyes.

Life is short and it must come to an end for all of us.

We should wisely make our choices because in the end, we will be responsible for our choices.

if you need purpose to defined by magic, rejection of commonsense, and group mentality then by all means go ahead. Just keep those that would force it on others under control. That would really help.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-17-2017, 08:54 AM
 
Location: Georgia
3,829 posts, read 1,413,133 times
Reputation: 2889
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains View Post
I find it refreshing when even the religious posters admit that there is no proof that the Bible is true.
I have more than enough proof- just not scientific. Faith is much better- it comes from God. "Scientific" evidence is man made, and therefore prone to error.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-17-2017, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Western Washington
8,929 posts, read 8,390,690 times
Reputation: 15495
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryan85 View Post
I have more than enough proof- just not scientific. Faith is much better- it comes from God. "Scientific" evidence is man made, and therefore prone to error.
This is a perfect example of circular logic. You have faith that the Bible is inspired, but you gain that faith from the Bible. At the same time you admit to not having scientific proof.

Is it any wonder that many people don't find this convincing?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-17-2017, 09:27 AM
 
7,378 posts, read 6,728,444 times
Reputation: 1252
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryan85 View Post
I have more than enough proof- just not scientific. Faith is much better- it comes from God. "Scientific" evidence is man made, and therefore prone to error.
Using faith, is there anything that cannot be believed?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-17-2017, 09:38 AM
 
4,410 posts, read 1,637,523 times
Reputation: 1528
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImissThe90's View Post
This is the most telling thing about you, GoCardinals.


All you are saying in this post, is "If you WANT to believe, then you will see all sorts of evidence!". That is confirmation bias, buddy. You are starting with what you want the answer to be, and then finding evidence to support it. It would be like me starting with WANTING Bigfoot to be real, and then believing all evidence that would support it. It would be like me WANTING to believe that Pinto's were great cars, and then pointing to the ones that didn't blow up as proof, while ignoring the ones that blew up.


Point is, that is NOT how you find proof or evidence of something. You start with a questions like, "Is God real? If he is, is it this certain, specific God?", not "I want to believe in God, and I want it to be this God, so therefore I will search for nothing but things that support it, and ignore everything that doesn't."
To a very small extent, I actually, do agree with you.

However, the reciprocal of what you are saying is also true, and more oxymoron. But there are a couple of other points too.

Those who start with the negative, "There is no God unless there is an evidence", have two problems.
1 - As I said earlier, they can't define what would be an evidence.
2 - They don't have the knowledge of validating the evidence.

Here is an example.

Human knowledge knows what is a duck. We have seen it and we have defined it's characteristics, and we have classified it.
Now, someone points out at a horse and says, that's a duck.
He provides all sort of "evidences", but you already know what's a duck. So you use your existing knowledge as a frame of reference and can tell that it's not a duck.

Say, As an evidence, god comes in front of you and claims that I am God.
How are you going to verify that it's God? Are you going to take him to a lab and get the blood sampling done? Take an MRI? Do a CT Scan? Listen to his heart beat? I mean, all results could be something previously unknown to humanity ... would that mean it's God? If that's your oracle of evidence then frankly, it's laughable.

Or, you are going to ask him to eradicate all misery from earth in a heartbeat. And He does it for you.
How are you going to verify that it was actually done by God, and what mechanism was used to achieve this? You don't have that knowledge. What you are asking for is actually a "miracle". And it's shamelessly ironic that those who demand evidence, actually want miracles. A miracles cannot be scientifically proven.

Someone said, as an evidence of God, I want him to change water sitting on my table, into wine.

I told him the same exact thing, how are you going to verify that it was done by God, and how are you going to validate the mechanism that changed water into wine? Do you have that scientific knowledge? No, you don't.

You are asking for "miracles" and not "evidence".

Perhaps David Copperfield could be a good candidate of being God to you?


2 - Second. Please read my post again. I do not advocate finding "evidence" of God for those who are in search of God. I said, they look for the "SIGNS" of God.

Faith is not based on evidence, or else, it's not a faith anymore.

And yes, these signs make sense to those who are in search of their destination.
For example, someone is taking a stroll, and there are a couple of fallen leaves in his path. Does he care about it? Probably not.

But if someone is on the same path, and he is in search of a shaded tree, he may look at those leaves as a sign that there is some sort of plantation near by, and he may just find the tree on this path. So he continues his search to find his destination.


I have also given the example of the thirst horse.

If the horse is not thirsty, what's the point of shoving down water into it's throat?
Those who demand evidence, will probably NEVER find God.

And those who take the journey to search for God, they make an effort of research and look for his signs. They are a thirsty horse who walks to water.


Again, whether you start with a negative hypothesis or a positive hypothesis about the existence of God, is YOUR choice. And it's a free choice.

And in the end, we will be responsible for our choices.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-17-2017, 09:40 AM
 
4,410 posts, read 1,637,523 times
Reputation: 1528
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
Just keep those that would force it on others under control. That would really help.
Totally agree with you on this one.

It's a personal journey. NO ONE should ever try to enforce their ideas upon others whether to believe or not to believe in God.

However, please note that, in some capacity, such people do exist in both camps.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-17-2017, 10:21 AM
 
8,589 posts, read 3,830,147 times
Reputation: 1917
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClementofA View Post
Is there any proof that the Bible is not 100% man made?
Sure there is proof. The biased God haters will of course never admit it so they poke holes into any evidence which you can easily do when trying to prove ANYTHING in life. Here's a few bullet points:


Quote:

66 books, was written by at least 40 different authors over a period of about 1600 years, in 13 different countries and on three different continents. It was written in at least three different languages by people in all professions. The Bible forms one beautiful temple of truth that does not contradict itself theologically, morally, ethically, doctrinally, scientifically, historically, or in any other way.
https://www.lwf.org/spiritualquestio...gods-word-5276

Sorry but the Bible doesn't read like a book of fables or folklore. It has specific details, genealogies, book of laws and customs, songs of praise, and life instructions that amazingly are still relevant today.


The Bible has countless fulfilled prophecies. Just about everything about the Jews and Israel has happened so far. The Jews were scattered all over the world, persecuted greatly, the language was reborn, the nation was reborn and the nation became a major producer of agriculture. In a desert. All predicted. All true. Israel is one of the most disputed and hated nation on earth. It is a major focal point of world politics and religion. Do you really want to believe that this tiny nation just coincidentally happens to be a holy place for the world's three biggest religions? Take any country that same size and just see how much attention it gets. All predicted. All true.


The Bible also shows foreknowledge of scientific principles that took man thousands of years to discover. For example, God handed down Mosaic law which specific details on how to prevent spreading of diseases like burying their feces away from camp. Man didn't understand about bacteria until hundreds of years later.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top