U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-16-2019, 09:39 AM
 
6,111 posts, read 2,346,141 times
Reputation: 2302

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
Once again, an atheist trying to interpret the Bible without God is by definition always absurd. You know that. I've explained this again and again.

Then theists should not bother using Bible quotes in arguing with atheists or on public buildings.

And God appears to give many different interpretations to different thiests. Maybe he encouraged all the religious wars? Or the US Civil War?

Interesting that the book can only make sense if some one or something tells you what it means.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old Yesterday, 09:36 AM
 
2,436 posts, read 2,453,276 times
Reputation: 2872
The OP's opening question asks: Is there any proof of the Bible's inspiration by God?


Of course there is! It says so itself. What more proof does anyone need??!?!?!!!?? For we all instinctively know that anything in print is always to be taken on face value as being "true". Why would it be printed and propagated as it is if it weren't true?

Another argument used by believers: "Why would untold numbers of humans through the last couple of thousand years been inspired to follow something and place belief and trust in something if it wasn't real?" or wording to that effect. Well then (as an analogy), after World War I and leading up to and through World War II, the population of Germany at-large was consumed with and held captive to devotion to Nazism (thinking, for all intents and purposes, like it was "ordained by God" for it to be proper and right for them to be so). Does that automatically mean that Nazism was a morally-upstanding and righteous way-of-thinking just because many tens of millions of persons were devoted to and consumed by it? And what about the multiple billions of followers of Hinduism, Buddhism, and Islam (amongst a host of other religions)? Does that make each of THEIR own respective views and assertions valid and true just because of their great number of followers?

Do such questions as these even need to be asked? They shouldn't need to be asked (the answer[s] to such questions should be patently obvious to anyone characterized by true intellectual honesty and integrity and with intact critical thinking faculties at their avail) . . . and yet this is the logic (or perhaps it should be called "illogic") that so many Bible believers fall back on (whether they acknowledge it or not and whether they actually fully realize it or not). That is, they don't apply the same standards and criteria that they hold other belief systems to to themselves.

Last edited by UsAll; Yesterday at 09:59 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 11:38 AM
 
39,800 posts, read 11,125,718 times
Reputation: 5150
Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander View Post
Then theists should not bother using Bible quotes in arguing with atheists or on public buildings.

And God appears to give many different interpretations to different thiests. Maybe he encouraged all the religious wars? Or the US Civil War?

Interesting that the book can only make sense if some one or something tells you what it means.
I watched a very good (but a bit repetitive) vid. on Bible inerrancy. What it actually meant (it can mean several things ) and how none of those really work. I'd post it but it is too long (1); nobody would watch it.

But you pick up the main points. That those who 'Interpret' it don't agree about how it should be interpreted. When the apologists say 'there are no errors', then really mean (or they will if you make them answer some queries) that there appear to be errors but they can all be explained. The Vid. tended to focus on the OT. mainly Genesis (and Exodus is now in the firing line ) and details like how many stables Solomon had. This led the vid. into the byway of asking why scribal errors would be allowed to creep into an originally perfect OT (or Jewish Pentateuch). I already touched on the two methods of explaining why Genesis, while appearing utterly erroneous is actually inerrant: Science disagrees, so either science is denied (the lies and nonsense this needs is not what we need get into here) or Genesis needs to be Interpreted to fit the science. I recall how one poster a long time ago claimed that Genesis was right and science was wrong. Because 6 days actually meant the (scientific) age of the universe divided by 6.

This is all well and good, but I much prefer the 'Biggies'. Not about how many hats Samuel was wearing or indeed whether the 'children' killed by the she -bears were cheeky little boys or should be Translated as a mob of anti-social thugs. Which is presented as self -defence on the part of the balding prophet. I prefer the Failed prophecies of Tyre and Babylon. I remember old Eusebius arguing that Tyre never was rebuilt! Oh, Sure they built a new city on top of the old one and called it Tyre, but that wasn't Tyre rebuilt! That had been destroyed as predicted. That was when i started to evolve the three stages of apologetics, the third being where the object is to wind up the opposition (Needle an atheist for Jesus) rather than make any convincing points.

But I find the NT is far more useful for really bad errors, and i rather wonder why it isn't used more. The contradiction of the death of Judas is used a bit. The Vid. mentioned this, and rather than bursting open vs. hanging (apologists 'weave' that together - the rope broke), asked who bought the farm? Judas with his own money, or the priests with the cash that Judas threw at them? Eusebius (always a good bad example) tried to play the 'only common element' tactic. "The field was bought with the silver". That's the same tactic as saying 'The details of the nativity don't matter- Jesus was born in Bethlehem. Therefore Matthew and Luke agree". This is decidedly shady tactics. I rather like the prophecy associated with the death of Judas. They are not the same prophecy in fact. But what is bad for Inerrancy is that not only are they cobbled together with out - of context - mined Quotes; they had to be altered to make them work.

This is of course where Inerrancy gets to the stage of the 'Ghost Bible', or "rewriting the Bible so it says what it is desired that it should say". This is where Metaphor and symbolism is introduced. This is where Slavery is explained away as 'Indentured servitude'. And when it is pointed out that this was only the case with enslaved Jews (and that is arguable- it was slavery, but with a time limit on it) and didn't apply to foreign slaves...well you just get the apologists reading from a different Bible than the one the rest of us have.

Ah,yes, i remember. (this was our pal Jeff, but i won't mention any names) once it was proved that slavery was approved it was blamed on men - nothing to do with God. And when the argument was made that rather than 'worship me' 4 times 'don't buy and own people' would have been better than 'This is how you should buy and own people, including fellow Jews' the retreat was made to the 3rd line of trenches. 'The New Testament did away with all of that'. But of course it doesn't. Apologetics has to lie, really about what the NT says in order to try that argument.

But as to bad ones- the 'Biggies' as i call them. Luke's rewrite of the rejection at Nazareth is one i like, but the best by far is the Transfiguration in John. Like the Temple -cleansing, it isn't there. Except he hasn't shifted it. He doesn't have one.

The discussion I had on this began with the argument that it wasn't the same event. It was pretty easy to show that it was - feeding of 5,000. walking on water back to Capernaum. Transfiguration should be in between. Plain as day.

Then they argued that Jesus told them to say nothing of it. But that was only until he had died and been resurrected, so that didn't stop John writing it any more than it stopped the Synoptics. After that Silence. This is the final apologetic. Don't mention the war. And do your damndest to stop the atheists mentioning it, too.

(1) since my post is almost as long - here it is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gpw-TSd36l8

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; Yesterday at 12:15 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
15,221 posts, read 5,088,639 times
Reputation: 1553
I can prove the bible was inspired by God, I can prove this beyond any doubt.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 01:09 PM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
15,455 posts, read 10,428,845 times
Reputation: 2634
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
I can prove the bible was inspired by God, I can prove this beyond any doubt.
Have you been drinking again mate!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 01:12 PM
 
9,081 posts, read 5,227,509 times
Reputation: 10346
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
I can prove the bible was inspired by God, I can prove this beyond any doubt.
Please proceed.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 01:12 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
15,221 posts, read 5,088,639 times
Reputation: 1553
What I can prove beyond any doubt is that the bible is not written in English, it is not written in Hebrew or Aramic, it is not written in Greek or latin.

It is a language to itself, and IN FACT, teaches a language, it is a book of teaching a new language, and once a person realizes the fact that it is teaching a language, he begins to excell because he knows it's a language and he knows he is steadily learning a new language that very few know.

I can prove the bible is written in an unknown language that can only be known like any other language, '' PRACTICE.''
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 01:13 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
23,206 posts, read 10,631,276 times
Reputation: 20694
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
What I can prove beyond any doubt is that the bible is not written in English, it is not written in Hebrew or Aramic, it is not written in Greek or latin.

It is a language to itself, and IN FACT, teaches a language, it is a book of teaching a new language, and once a person realizes the fact that it is teaching a language, he begins to excell because he knows it's a language and he knows he is steadily learning a new language that very few know.

I can prove the bible is written in an unknown language that can only be known like any other language, '' PRACTICE.''
Well, that logic was a flop.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 01:15 PM
 
9,081 posts, read 5,227,509 times
Reputation: 10346
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
What I can prove beyond any doubt is that the bible is not written in English, it is not written in Hebrew or Aramic, it is not written in Greek or latin.

It is a language to itself, and IN FACT, teaches a language, it is a book of teaching a new language, and once a person realizes the fact that it is teaching a language, he begins to excell because he knows it's a language and he knows he is steadily learning a new language that very few know.

I can prove the bible is written in an unknown language that can only be known like any other language, '' PRACTICE.''
Yeah, this is not even coherent. Is it meant to be funny? Forgive me, sometimes I can't tell.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 01:19 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
15,221 posts, read 5,088,639 times
Reputation: 1553
How could I possibly prove there is in fact, a hidden language in the bible and being taught to bible readers?

Imagine we were two foriegners who only spoke English in a foriegn country where nobody has ever heard English.

Now imagine that this foriegn country had never heard any other language than the language they speak, and now imagine just one English speaking person spoke in English to a multitude of people, and ALL the people said,'' He is just speaking nonsense, not a real language.

So the English person says, '' Wait, I can prove that I am speaking in another language, and that it is not jibberish made up nonsense.

Let me tell you what I will do, I will write a letter in English to another person who speaks English and he will translate, and this will prove that two people speak the same language because the language exists.

All I need is one other person who speaks the hidden language of the bible to write a letter, and then I will translate it.

Last edited by Hannibal Flavius; Yesterday at 01:34 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top