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Old 05-17-2017, 06:31 PM
 
Location: Dallas,Texas
1,378 posts, read 1,461,856 times
Reputation: 1480

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
If we had video footage of the Hand of God touching the Bible, and I bet that you would claim the video was a fake. There is simply no evidence to satisfy someone of your mindset. Satan has you living in deception which is really sad. Your post 10 is a lot of fluff that can't withhold much scrutiny.
There is no evidence that could be presented to Jeffbase that he would accept that the Quran is the word of god and that it is the true inspired word of the creator of the universe. Not personal experience testimonies of Muslims encountering peace seeking Allah, not personal conversion stories about lives being changed after following the will of Allah and not all the apologetic arguments on behalf of Islam that are on YouTube. Nothing will change JeffBase's heart to accept the will of Allah and his true communication device the Quran.
Satan is confusing Jeffbase's mind to keep him locked up with all this Jesus silliness.

Save all of us the silly argument Jeffbase.

Last edited by Texan2008; 05-17-2017 at 06:52 PM..
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Old 05-17-2017, 06:36 PM
 
Location: minnesota
6,299 posts, read 2,093,376 times
Reputation: 2157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan2008 View Post
There is no evidence that could be presented to Jeffbase that he would accept that the Quran is the word of god and that it is the true inspired word of the creator of the universe. Not personal experience testimonies of Muslims encountering peace seeking Allah, not personal conversion stories about lives being changed after following the will of Allah and not all the apologetic arguments on behalf of Islam that are on YouTube. Nothing will change JeffBase's heart to accept the will of Allah and his true communication device the Quran.
Satan is confusing Jeffbase's mind to keep him locked up with all this Jesus silliness.

Save all of us the silly argument Jeffbase.
Maybe a video of the hand of God touching the Quran?
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Old 05-17-2017, 06:51 PM
 
Location: Dallas,Texas
1,378 posts, read 1,461,856 times
Reputation: 1480
Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8 View Post
Maybe a video of the hand of God touching the Quran?
According to JeffBase, that would never be enough for us atheists either. LOL
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Old 05-17-2017, 07:03 PM
 
4,313 posts, read 1,607,900 times
Reputation: 1460
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
I don't know. the choices are something or nothing at this point. Its down to what one freaks you, or me, out less. i flip flop myself. So assuming we are the first isn't invalid. I am not sure why your god has to be before us and couldn't started off with us.

so, like I said. most of us do not agree with the traits you assign to that thing. Not that there is or is not something with us.
No, not exactly.

Lets take God, out of this equation.

Now tell me, Did big bang start it all?
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Old 05-17-2017, 08:01 PM
 
6,780 posts, read 4,048,351 times
Reputation: 670
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClementofA View Post
Is there any proof that the Bible is not 100% man made?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule View Post
Anything that a human (or anything else) does...The Universe (God) is doing.
Thus, God (The Universe) is responsible for The Bible, and everything else that exists. God (The Universe) does everything, and is everything.
It is, "The All God Show", all the time. Always has been, and always will be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
why?

the reason we don't believe is because of the traits you assign that thing of yours. So I am a little confused by your stock selections.
The problem is, both sides keep making a "literal" assessment of writings that are allegorical and contain metaphorical characters to represent God and parts of God.

Jehovah, Yahweh/Yhwh is a metaphorical/allegorical representation of God...and does not exist in Reality except as a conceptual character in those Religious writings.
I actually think it's very impressive that thousands of years ago there were people that could create a character that had all the attributes of God. Have all power, knowledge, and be all present everywhere at once. Pretty cool, I must say.
Those people could write...modern fiction authors have nothing on them!
ALL THE ENERGY/MATTER THAT EXISTS AND HAS EXISTED (The Universe) has all the attributes definitive of a God Entity.
~~THE UNIVERSE and that which comprises it, has rearranged itself so as to produce everything that has ever existed in Reality...from the smallest particle to the biggest Galaxy.---SOURCE/CREATOR
~~THE UNIVERSE and that which comprises it, possess knowledge of all that is known at any given time.---ALL KNOWING
~~THE UNIVERSE and that which comprises it, occupies all places in Reality.---ALLPRESENT
~~THE UNIVERSE and that which comprises it, accounts for all the energy and force that exists in, acts upon, and controls, Reality.---ALL POWERFUL
I could go on....but this level of ubiquity, scope/size, and power are the attributes known to be definitive, demonstrative, and indicative of a God Entity. To eliminate "The Universe" is to leave absolutely nothing left...nothing else has that trait.
THE UNIVERSE is as "Godly" as it gets...from ANY reasonable assessment...and certainly merits the title "GOD".
If THE UNIVERSE doesn't cut it as GOD, nothing would...and we may as well not even have such a word/term/title.

The Bible and other Religious writings allegorically and metaphorically tell about GOD (The Universe) and things that are part of GOD.
Where people go off the rails, is when they critique these allegorical stories from a literal standpoint.
Stop doing that...and gain much greater, more logical & reasonable understanding.
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Old 05-17-2017, 08:13 PM
 
38,744 posts, read 10,667,394 times
Reputation: 5065
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
No, not exactly.

Lets take God, out of this equation.

Now tell me, Did big bang start it all?
If we take God out of the equation, does it matter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
I am afraid that will be too late.
Who says so? If I were a god I'd say "Well, here I am. Do you believe now?" instead of "Ah, because I bent over backwards to make it look like I didn't exist and you went with the evidence instead of faith, I'm blaming you for not using the brains I gave you." Well, if that looks just and merciful to human morality (which is god-given, so you bods would have me believe) it for sure would look just and merciful o a god. And in his place I'd be a bit miffed with you for saying what would or would not be too late, as hough you, and not God, were deciding what he could and couldn't arrange.

Quote:
This is true, very true.
And this is the reason why I have repeatedly said, we should make our choices wisely, because in the end, we (including the Atheists) will be responsible for our choices.
Indeed? In what way? What comes home to roost if we - including you -made the wrong choice? And are you sure you have made he right one?
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Old 05-17-2017, 08:23 PM
 
38,744 posts, read 10,667,394 times
Reputation: 5065
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan2008 View Post
There is no evidence that could be presented to Jeffbase that he would accept that the Quran is the word of god and that it is the true inspired word of the creator of the universe. Not personal experience testimonies of Muslims encountering peace seeking Allah, not personal conversion stories about lives being changed after following the will of Allah and not all the apologetic arguments on behalf of Islam that are on YouTube. Nothing will change JeffBase's heart to accept the will of Allah and his true communication device the Quran.
Satan is confusing Jeffbase's mind to keep him locked up with all this Jesus silliness.

Save all of us the silly argument Jeffbase.
I couldn't find the Jeffbase post you responded to, but it was a fine example of closed minded fingers-in -ears. If we did see a video of the hand of God touching he Bible, you bet I'd wonder whether it was faked, and it puts Jeff in an odd light that he would accept it without question - unless it was he hand of God touching he Quran - then it'd be a fake, all right.

And the way he waved away my post 10! I'd like to see him put it under scrutiny and make a case for Bible reliability.

In fact as I recall he got beat on Tyre and Babylon already.

Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8 View Post
Maybe a video of the hand of God touching the Quran?
Damn! You beat me to it!
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Old 05-17-2017, 09:38 PM
 
4,313 posts, read 1,607,900 times
Reputation: 1460
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
If we take God out of the equation, does it matter?
It matters in a sense that if you take God out of the equation then you get stuck in an infinite loop.
What started this? and what started that? and what started that? and what started that? and what started that, and what started that >>>>> infinity.


Quote:
Who says so? If I were a god I'd say "Well, here I am. Do you believe now?" instead of "Ah, because I bent over backwards to make it look like I didn't exist and you went with the evidence instead of faith, I'm blaming you for not using the brains I gave you." Well, if that looks just and merciful to human morality (which is god-given, so you bods would have me believe) it for sure would look just and merciful o a god. And in his place I'd be a bit miffed with you for saying what would or would not be too late, as hough you, and not God, were deciding what he could and couldn't arrange.
As previously answered. Life would not have any meaning and it would not make any sense if a proof or evidence of YOUR liking was provided.

Imagine your scenario of "Well, here I am. Do you believe now?" and tell me,
Would you then have had a choice to say "No"?

Now apply that scenario to 7 Billion living people on earth, and 100 n millions who lived before us and will come after us.

Each and everyone would have been born and presented with the proof of God of his liking, they would then have no choice but to live their life as per God's commandments, they would then die and enter paradise. Why the repetition of same scenario billions of times?

Why would God not, just made all these humans and enter them straight into paradise? What's the point of life? Why sent them to earth?

You wouldn't be left with a choice with the scenario of "Well, here I am. Do you believe now?"

But now you do. Make your choice wisely.


Quote:
Indeed? In what way? What comes home to roost if we - including you -made the wrong choice? And are you sure you have made he right one?
With my limited knowledge, intelligence and logic, I have tried to perform my own research and tried my best to make the best choice that satisfied my quest.

I did not start with a negative, i.e. denying God, and then demanding evidence.

Instead, I started with a positive, "The entire universe, all the design and everything in it, cannot come together on it's own. So there must be a creator. So let me try to find his signs and learn the purpose of my life till my time is up"

If it turns out that it was God of some other religion, then at least I would be able to say, "Oh God, I tried my best to find you but I never denied your existence".
I think I would stand a better chance than an Atheist who would have outright denied the existence of God.
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Old 05-17-2017, 10:26 PM
 
38,744 posts, read 10,667,394 times
Reputation: 5065
What you are missing is the topic - God's inspiration in the Bible or any other Holy Book. While I am well aware of the gap for God provided by not knowing where the stuff of the universe came from (because everything after the bang suggests natural processes, not intelligent direction), that does not do a single thing to show that any religion, its' personal god or Holy Book is anything othr than human invention.

And as to your 'before god' scenario. It only works if Faith without evidence (indeed in spite of it) is the only thing that matters. It makes no sense to me, and I don't see how it can make sense to any god that wasn't totally screwed up that it is of exclusive importance that His Creation should abuse the brain it gave them to believe what reason tells them is rubbish. Not a possible Creator - I am aware of that possibility. But particular religions, gods and Holy Books. That's the thread -topic.

But to stay on the derail, suppose Faith is the only thing that matters. So what if I don't have it? What difference does it make to me in life or when I'm dead? Apart from in life, not buying into what makes no sense, of course
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Old 05-17-2017, 10:42 PM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
15,191 posts, read 10,273,194 times
Reputation: 2586
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
This is NOT how it works in the matters of faith.

It starts with the question whether you want to find God and his guidance to provide you with a purpose of your life?

1 - If the answer is "No". Then stop right here. Because with this mindset, no matter what proof and/or evidence is presented to you, you will always find a way to reject or dismiss it.

Even if God comes down to meet you as a proof, you will probably say, "This can't be real, I am dreaming."

So whenever a person demands a proof in the matters of faith, you should know right away that he is not lookng for God.

Believing in God is faith, and faith is not based on proof and evidence.

2 - If your answer is Yes. Then you take a journey to find and analyze the SIGNS of God. (Looking and searching for SIGNS of God versus demanding the evidence of God - see the difference between the two approaches?).
Oh! I get it now. It's exactly the same as looking for Oberon.


Quote:
After studying and analyzing it using your intelligence logic and common sense, does the Bible talk to your heart IS THE QUESTION!
The question is more - If you actually HAVE used intelligence, logic and common sense to examine the Bible - then why do you still believe that it's true??

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
The Bible has countless fulfilled prophecies.
It doesn't have any...but it does have plenty of failed ones.

Quote:
The Jews were scattered all over the world,...
...and what race of people aren't these days?


Quote:
...the nation was reborn...
'Forced prophecy'

Quote:
Israel is one of the most disputed and hated nation on earth.
Perhaps they should stop stealing land that doesn't belong to them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by augiedogie View Post
There is all kinds of evidence/proof that the bible is the inspired and dictated word of the one true God. There are whole books on the subject, if someone is genuinely interested.
There are also whole books on it not being what you claim...if someone is genuinely interested

Quote:
For example, the Bible is full of prophecies that were fulfillment hundreds of years later.
No there aren't. If you think there are then give us three Bible prophecies that do not rely on the Bible for fulfilment. 'Prophecies in the OT that are confirmed by the NT just don't count...and don't waste your time with Israel 1948 please. That is simply nonsense.


Quote:
Some still being fulfilled today.
Such as?
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