U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 05-18-2017, 03:59 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
2,186 posts, read 789,666 times
Reputation: 1004

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
Baseless claim, unless you can show me how the Koran has just as much fulfilled prophecy, Islam has just as many testimonies of supernatural encounters and miracle healings. There is even a worldwide annual conference of Christian doctors who meet to share their experiences with miracle healing and documented proof of such things. Does Islam have an equivalent?

It is more irrational to believe that we gave from a pile of goop, humans are nothing much bags of cells, and things like love are nothing more than chemical reactions in the brain.
Prophesies that the wind will blow and sun will rise aren't prophesies. Gives us specific prophesies that can be verified. I don't want to hear the bible fulfilling the bible thousands of years ago, because you would not accept those "prophesies" from another religion.

And, show me the sound evidence of an amputee being restored. Give us verifiable miracles, not there was a tumor and now it is gone. Anyone can fake these or lie. I want something that stuns the world and clearly exposed your God.

Muslims are so convinced they cut heads off. Are you saying their experiences are bogus, while yours are not? Why do so many follow Hinduism? You have nothing verifiable or unique.

Who claimed we formed from poop? As far as what we are, you can't prove we are anything more than mortal beings without souls.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-18-2017, 04:10 PM
 
39,014 posts, read 10,812,637 times
Reputation: 5080
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
See it is that type of cockiness why I won't even waste my time. You've heard the arguments. You rejected them. Fine, no surprise there because that's the only way you can have faith in the FLIMSY case for atheism. So why waste time presenting arguments that will NEVER be given an ounce of consideration? You never beat me on Tyre and Babylon either. Tyre was destroyed. The great city was put to ruin. Just because another city exists sharing the same name doesn't mean that the SAME city exists. That would be like me gluing two popsicle sticks upright near the 9/11 site, naming them the WTC and say, see, the WTC still exists!

But you'll continue to say Tyre exists because that's all ya got. And it requires completely ignoring other fulfilled prophecies like that Tyre would be thrown into the sea. Alexander did exactly that thing.
It's actually the reverse. Tyre is just one failed prophecy that is lied about to make it True. Babylon the same. It is something of a touchstone case, but it is far from 'all I got'. Nearly all the Jesus prophecies can be shown to be retrospective and often fiddled. As I already explained re. Rachel's' children (Herod's massacre) and Judas' death. And you are the one rejecting it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-18-2017, 04:46 PM
 
13,450 posts, read 4,976,974 times
Reputation: 1363
Quote:
Originally Posted by overcastg4 View Post
Who, or what, is tasked with disseminating the observations?
You are talking about the conclusions I think. I am talking about us learning how to form a conclusion. The process of forming a conclusion can be taught with less bias than the conclusion itself.

for example; 1 - ___ - 5 -___ - 10. What would you put in the blanks?

the word "rain"? How about a rock?

"something" is far more reasonable than "nothing" today. I don't do omni dude any more than I avoid the facts in describing how the universe works because I hate religion.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-18-2017, 04:47 PM
 
4,410 posts, read 1,637,523 times
Reputation: 1528
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
This is the part I don't agree with go. If a belief goes against observations why would you settle for it? If you are here talking about it, why not learn what and why we say the things we do? Sure, some in my ranks are as much blind faith grubbers as some religious people, we don't have to be like that.

I am ok with believing in something, observations support that. I bet the numbers would show most people do.

But how can you say "some yes and some no" when it comes to magic? A guy died and came back to life? There is no reason to make people say that is literally true. Living like larry, er I mean christ, is cool, but to teach people that if they do not accept things that go against what they know they are wrong is a sin to me?
As I have said this numerous times before.

I am not against a dialogue between the two camps in order to explain why we do, or why we don't believe.

We should get into a friendly and open conversation to better understand each, and avoid proving each other wrong.

Obviously, I am against getting into a hosing down contest to tell someone that their faith is wrong and mine is right. As I said, everyone is on his own and responsible for his choices.
We have intelligence and logic. We should use it and arrive at our conclusion. We shall wait and we will see.

What you and I, should agree on is that, logic and intelligence may vary from person to person. What's logical to me, may not necessarily be logical to you.

You may not arrive at the same conclusion using your intelligence, from what I have arrived, using my intelligence.

And hence, there will perhaps never be ALL atheists, or ALL believers or ALL agnostics or All Hindus or ALL Christians or ALL Muslims or ALL Jews or ALL Buddhists etc in the world.

We will always have a difference of faith and belief or lack of it, between different groups of human beings.

However, one thing IS common for all of us. And that is, we all have to see the end of our lives. There is no getting away with it.

So, whether there is God and afterlife or not? We shall know it one way or the other.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-18-2017, 04:49 PM
 
13,450 posts, read 4,976,974 times
Reputation: 1363
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
Baseless claim, unless you can show me how the Koran has just as much fulfilled prophecy, Islam has just as many testimonies of supernatural encounters and miracle healings. There is even a worldwide annual conference of Christian doctors who meet to share their experiences with miracle healing and documented proof of such things. Does Islam have an equivalent?

It is more irrational to believe that we gave from a pile of goop, humans are nothing much bags of cells, and things like love are nothing more than chemical reactions in the brain.
can't you see this is like "fandom" (I forget who gave me that word ... thanks) The giants are better than the yankees type thing?

how about this. You claim a guy died and rose. is that literally true? or literally false? or a metaphor to teach?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-18-2017, 04:53 PM
 
13,450 posts, read 4,976,974 times
Reputation: 1363
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
As I have said this numerous times before.

I am not against a dialogue between the two camps in order to explain why we do, or why we don't believe.

We should get into a friendly and open conversation to better understand each, and avoid proving each other wrong.

Obviously, I am against getting into a hosing down contest to tell someone that their faith is wrong and mine is right. As I said, everyone is on his own and responsible for his choices.
We have intelligence and logic. We should use it and arrive at our conclusion. We shall wait and we will see.

What you and I, should agree on is that, logic and intelligence may vary from person to person. What's logical to me, may not necessarily be logical to you.

You may not arrive at the same conclusion using your intelligence, from what I have arrived, using my intelligence.

And hence, there will perhaps never be ALL atheists, or ALL believers or ALL agnostics or All Hindus or ALL Christians or ALL Muslims or ALL Jews or ALL Buddhists etc in the world.

We will always have a difference of faith and belief or lack of it, between different groups of human beings.

However, one thing IS common for all of us. And that is, we all have to see the end of our lives. There is no getting away with it.

So, whether there is God and afterlife or not? We shall know it one way or the other.
I get it, we don't mean fight about it. But if you state "2.1+2 = 7" we have a real problem. what do we do then?

I mean 4.1 or 4 is ok to talk about. not 7.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-18-2017, 05:57 PM
 
8,589 posts, read 3,830,147 times
Reputation: 1917
Quote:
Originally Posted by maat55 View Post
Prophesies that the wind will blow and sun will rise aren't prophesies. Gives us specific prophesies that can be verified. I don't want to hear the bible fulfilling the bible thousands of years ago, because you would not accept those "prophesies" from another religion.

And, show me the sound evidence of an amputee being restored. Give us verifiable miracles, not there was a tumor and now it is gone. Anyone can fake these or lie. I want something that stuns the world and clearly exposed your God.

Muslims are so convinced they cut heads off. Are you saying their experiences are bogus, while yours are not? Why do so many follow Hinduism? You have nothing verifiable or unique.

Who claimed we formed from poop? As far as what we are, you can't prove we are anything more than mortal beings without souls.
I already did. I shared a video of an Indian man having his bum leg restored. No mental games because there was a language barrier. It was never given a moment of consideration. And yes, you would even laugh off a video of a limb growing back. Claim it is tricky. They did the same thing in Jesus day.

Plus, most Muslims are a product of their culture. If I was raised in a cult like atmosphere from birth, I would also believe without doubt.

All people like you do is keep putting up conditions and barriers on evidence which only demonstrates a complete sincere lack of desire to see evidence that proves God.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-18-2017, 06:13 PM
 
Location: Arcadia area of Phoenix
249 posts, read 138,207 times
Reputation: 351
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
I already did. I shared a video of an Indian man having his bum leg restored. No mental games because there was a language barrier. It was never given a moment of consideration. And yes, you would even laugh off a video of a limb growing back. Claim it is tricky. They did the same thing in Jesus day.

Plus, most Muslims are a product of their culture. If I was raised in a cult like atmosphere from birth, I would also believe without doubt.

All people like you do is keep putting up conditions and barriers on evidence which only demonstrates a complete sincere lack of desire to see evidence that proves God.

All we're asking you and all the other devout believers to do is show physical, tangible proof of a god. This request has been asked of theists for generations and centuries but nobody has ever been able to provide this proof. This so-called god has never shown himself to exist.
Religion is all theory, not fact. You have a right to believe what you want, but insisting your beliefs are correct and non-believers are wrong is very conceited and narrow-minded on your part.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-18-2017, 06:36 PM
 
13,450 posts, read 4,976,974 times
Reputation: 1363
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
I already did. I shared a video of an Indian man having his bum leg restored. No mental games because there was a language barrier. It was never given a moment of consideration. And yes, you would even laugh off a video of a limb growing back. Claim it is tricky. They did the same thing in Jesus day.

Plus, most Muslims are a product of their culture. If I was raised in a cult like atmosphere from birth, I would also believe without doubt.

All people like you do is keep putting up conditions and barriers on evidence which only demonstrates a complete sincere lack of desire to see evidence that proves God.
medical miracles happen everyday. And when we go to study them, the lame getting up and walking away seem to stop happening. hmmmm ....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-18-2017, 06:42 PM
 
4,410 posts, read 1,637,523 times
Reputation: 1528
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
I get it, we don't mean fight about it. But if you state "2.1+2 = 7" we have a real problem. what do we do then?

I mean 4.1 or 4 is ok to talk about. not 7.
No, this is not what I am saying. This is perhaps an irrelevant example. You are talking about laws and rules that we have agreed upon. It has hardly anything to do with using our logic and intelligence to re-invent this wheel. We already agree that 2+2 = 4


Now, here is an example that perhaps you and I can talk about.

I go out to my driveway, and take a few small stones and put them together in a way that they form the shape of alphabets that spell my name.

I take my cell phone and take a pic of that in order to save my design.

I then put all these stones in a bucket, and toss them in the air, and let them land on the concrete to see if the same design can be formed again? I repeat this quite a few times and notice that it's not happening.

I realize that I don't seem to have an in-depth control and calculated energy where I can toss the stones in the air in such a way that if they land, it will form the the alphabets of my name.


Now, I look at the design of our solar system. I see the circular and oval orbits formed by different planets around the sun.
My logic tells me that it's not possible for this formation to have come together on it's own. There is definitely a design and a designer behind it.

while your logic may tell you otherwise. Your intelligence and your logic may tell you that yes, indeed the design of our solar system is created randomly by chance. There is no force behind all this to design all this.

This is the logical difference I am talking about.

Here is another example,

I have taken a course on the subject of "probability".

My logic asks a simple question when I look at the two pics below.

What's the probability of Fibonacci spiral being present in the shape of galaxies and also inside the cabbage?
Is it by chance or is it by design?

My logic and intelligence tells me that probability of this phenomenon is almost impossible to have been randomly present in the galaxies and inside the cabbage.

Your logic and intelligence may tell you otherwise.






So yeah, it's not about what's 2+2, it's about whether all of the universe and everything in it came together by itself, or whether there is a creator behind it?

As Einstein said,

“Try and penetrate with our limited means the secrets of nature and you will find that, behind all the discernible laws and connections, there remains something subtle, intangible and inexplicable. Veneration for this force beyond anything that we can comprehend is my religion.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top