An Intellectual's Christian Narrative: A Non-Magical Alternative (bible, quote, faith)

[Tzaphkiel]

Originally Posted by Pleroo

I know full well what her intent was. And her unwillingness to apply her reasoning to anyone but whomever she has a personal vendetta against, speaks volumes about that intent.

Another example of "still mired within the harmful aspects"

[Pleroo]

Keep cutting out the salient points Tzap, but it doesn't serve you well:

Originally Posted by Pleroo

Of course she is saying that. She made the blanket statement that anyone who says that any other path than their own is invalid -- Jesus, according to every inerrant-bible believer I've ever met, says that his (and by extension their) path [their interpretation of what that path is] is the only valid path. Follow the line of reasoning here, Bungalove.

Originally Posted by Pleroo

...
At any rate, what I'm discussing is your blanket statement [Tzap] that anyone who says their path is the only path is arrogant. You seem to only want to narrowly apply that BLANKET statement to certain people.


And, the interesting thing is that the people you want to apply it to, are the people who say that the love of God is not exclusive.

Why is that, Tzap?

[Pleroo]

Originally Posted by Bungalove

Well hey, you go on and believe what you want. It's pretty apparent your mind is made up on several points anyway.

Which points would those be?

[Rbbi1]

Originally Posted by SoCalAngel2009

For clarification about the source of the spirit communications which I link here, they are from the highest spirits and others by their use of automatic writing through a medium who received God's Divine Love in his soul. One of God's many laws of the universe is the law of communication and rapport, and it is this law which allows for such communication between spirits and mortals.

During the time of Jesus and way before then, people were more spiritual and, therefore, spirit communication was commonplace and accepted and not taboo. About 150 years after Jesus' passing and the start-up of the various churches, people were less spiritual and Jesus' teachings were all but lost. The elders of the church who wrote the bible focused on the purification of the natural love by doing good works, loving your neighbor, following the ten commandments, etc. I won't go into all the untruths in the bible, just this one. They didn't know what happens after death, so they fabricated a story which, unfortunately, is believed by millions.

Their warning about demons as being the only spirits in the next world is preposterous and for those who believe there are spirits battling in the next world called "spiritual warfare," this is not so. If anything, the spiritual battle is a personal one between our mind and our soul... upon our soul becoming awakened to the truth.

How about I pray for your own good and the opening of your eyes, that you meet what is being channeled, how's that? You would find out REAL QUICK there IS a battle being fought in the spiritual realm for the possession of your soul, and from what I've read of your posts, you're losing the battle. You have not experienced your stand on this, I HAVE. You have not seen the likes of what is being channeled, I HAVE. You have not cast out the likes of what is being channeled out of those such as yourself who stayed at a the party a little too long, I HAVE.

Let's see what G-d thinks about such things, since His view is the ONLY one that counts...

Exodus: written 6th century BCE

Ex 22:18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

Deuteronomy: written about 621 BC. Jesus quotes or alludes to Deut. in these scriptures, assigning their authorship to Moses, which means He was well aware of it's authenticity and authority.

(1) Matt. 19:7-9; Mark 10:4-5 - Deut. 24:1-4
(2) Mark 7:10 - Deut. 5:16
(3) Luke 16:31; 24:27, 44; John 5:46-47; 7:19, 23

1. He quoted repeatedly from it during His temptation by Satan in the wilderness
a. Matt. 4:4; Luke 4:4 - Deut. 8:3
b. Matt. 4:7; Luke 4:12 - Deut. 6:26
c. Matt. 4:10; Luke 4:8 - Deut. 6:13
2. It is possibly the outline behind the Sermon on the Mount (cf. Matthew 5-7).
3. Jesus quoted Deut. 6:5 as the greatest commandment (cf. Matt. 22:34-40; Mark 12:28-34; Luke 10:25-28).

Deut. 18:10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,

Deut 18:11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

Deut 18:12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

Deut 18:13 Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God.


Now what does perfect mean?

תָּמִים tâmîym, taw-meem'; from H8552; entire (literally, figuratively or morally); also (as noun) integrity, truth:—without blemish, complete, full, perfect, sincerely (-ity), sound, without spot, undefiled, upright(-ly), whole.



complete, whole, entire, sound

1. complete, whole, entire
2. whole, sound, healthful
3. complete, entire (of time)
4. sound, wholesome, unimpaired, innocent, having integrity
5. what is complete or ENTIRELY IN ACCORD WITH TRUTH AND FACT (neuter adj/subst)

John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: THEY WORD IS TRUTH.

Matt 5:48 Be ye therefore PERFECT, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Then Leviticus was written around 1440 BC.

Lev 19:31 'Do not turn to mediums or spiritists; do not seek them out to be defiled by them. I am the LORD your God.

Isaiah was written around 681-700 BC.

Isaiah 18:10 When they say to you, "Consult the mediums and the spiritists who whisper and mutter," should not a people consult their God? Should they consult the dead on behalf of the living?

2Kings was written between 560 and 540 BC.

2Kings 21:6 He made his son pass through the fire, practiced witchcraft and used divination, and dealt with mediums and spiritists. He did much evil in the sight of the LORD provoking Him to anger.

Lev 20:6 'As for the person who turns to mediums and to spiritists, to play the harlot after them, I will also set My face against that person and will cut him off from among his people.

Lev 20:27 'Now a man or a woman who is a medium or a spiritist shall surely be put to death. They shall be stoned with stones, their bloodguiltiness is upon them.'"

1Chronicles was written around 528-333 BC.

1Chron 10:13 So Saul died for his trespass which he committed against the LORD, because of the word of the LORD which he did not keep; and also because he asked counsel of a medium, making inquiry of it,

Acts was written 60-90 AD

Acts 16:16 So Saul died for his trespass which he committed against the LORD, because of the word of the LORD which he did not keep; and also because he asked counsel of a medium, making inquiry of it,

1Timothy was written 62-66 AD

ITim 4:1 But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,

Revelation was written around 70 AD.

Rev 22:15 OUTSIDE (the city) are the dogs and the SORCERERS and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.

What the reader should take from all of this, is that 1) G-d doesn't take pains to warn people against something that doesn't exist, and 2) G-d's position on those that speak to entities through mediums/channelers, has not changed in thousands of years. Peace

[Tzaphkiel]

Originally Posted by Pleroo

Keep cutting out the salient points Tzap, but it doesn't serve you well:

Why is that, Tzap?

Since we both say that God is available to everyone, and that there are many paths to God, then we are in agreement.

[Bungalove]

Originally Posted by Pleroo

Which points would those be?

Look, I've been through this entire thread, and I'm not about to get into a theological or philosophical debate with anyone. Notice that I didn't say anything about your beliefs (points), only that you have your mind made up on what they are, as most people do for their own beliefs. You do you; just leave me out of your fight. It's a nice day outside, and I'm going to go and enjoy the Creator's bounty.

[Pleroo]

Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel

Since we both say that God is available to everyone, and that there are many paths to God, then we are in agreement.

The thing that you don't seem to understand is that it's never been about the other person's PATH. Yes, we've all got one to travel. It's about religious beliefs that are out of harmony with the nature of love.

[Pleroo]

Originally Posted by Bungalove

Look, I've been through this entire thread, and I'm not about to get into a theological or philosophical debate with anyone. Notice that I didn't say anything about your beliefs (points), only that you have your mind made up on what they are, as most people do for their own beliefs. You do you; just leave me out of your fight. It's a nice day outside, and I'm going to go and enjoy the Creator's bounty.

I didn't drag you into this discussion, Bungalove. You hopped in yourself, of your own volition.

[Bungalove]

Originally Posted by Pleroo

I didn't drag you into this discussion, Bungalove. You hopped in yourself, of your own volition.

No, I "hopped" into the discussion. The fight is all on you. Peace out.

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel

Then surely you can acknowledge that other people's experiences drive their certainty as well.
Except you don't. You label them mentally ill.
I'm sorry mystic I have to withdraw my previous statement of support for your experience. Because you are not acting like someone who has been touched by the Divine.

That saddens me because I labeled no one mentally ill. I referenced a well established mental health problem that would concern ME if I exhibited it. I could, but will NOT, assert that your beliefs that contradict what I know of Agape love suggest whatever experiences you have are NOT touched by the Divine. The nature of the consciousness I encountered is COMPLETELY consistent with and compatible with the detailed descriptions of Agape love in 1 Cor 13, Galatians 5 and the Sermon on the Mount. That is the only Divine that I have been touched by.