Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 01-06-2018, 10:52 PM
 
21,957 posts, read 19,080,264 times
Reputation: 18067

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Nothing. There is nothing BUT God and we are just a part of His consciousness. God thought our reality into existence and we are part of the reproduction of His consciousness under Jesus - His firstborn among humans.
So you don't know the difference between God and nature. Got it. Well then that explains why science is your theology.

And with regards to "magical thinking" and "superstition" that bit about "firstborn among humans" takes the cake.

 
Old 01-07-2018, 08:31 AM
 
Location: Kent, Ohio
3,429 posts, read 2,719,917 times
Reputation: 1667
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
So you don't know the difference between God and nature. Got it.
I think this is one point on which Mystic and I are fairly close in our thinking. I would say that nature (I generally use the word "Reality") is fundamentally proto-conscious or unconscious (a primordial "deep, dreamless sleep") and basically "wakes up" whenever physical systems evolve into brains of the right sort. Mystic, on the other hand, see nature as fundamentally conscious in a Gods-eye-view sense. But, for both of us, God essentially is nature - not outside of nature. One way to think of it: "Nature" - as the term is used scientifically - is Being's objective aspect - or "God' embodiment, so to speak - whereas "God" - as the term is used theologically - is Reality's subjective aspect - the mental/intelligent aspect of Being. God/Subjectivity is not beyond or outside of nature, it is just what it is like to be Being.

I'm agnostic on the question of the primordial consciousness/intelligence of Reality, but do believe, with high confidence, that Reality is at least primordially unconscious (a sort of "qualitative chaos").
 
Old 01-07-2018, 11:55 AM
 
21,957 posts, read 19,080,264 times
Reputation: 18067
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
So you don't know the difference between God and nature. Got it. Well then that explains why science is your theology.

And with regards to "magical thinking" and "superstition" that bit about "firstborn among humans" takes the cake.
"Fables" and "myths" to use your own terms Mystic also aptly describe the bit about "firstborn among humans"

Again using your own criteria, your own views as set forth in your own posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
....The utter failure of theists to ground their faith in reality instead of fables and myths ....

Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 01-07-2018 at 12:05 PM..
 
Old 01-07-2018, 12:28 PM
 
63,494 posts, read 39,789,724 times
Reputation: 7807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
So you don't know the difference between God and nature. Got it. Well then that explains why science is your theology.
And with regards to "magical thinking" and "superstition" that bit about "firstborn among humans" takes the cake.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
"Fables" and "myths" to use your own terms Mystic also aptly describe the bit about "firstborn among humans"
Again using your own criteria
The flaw in your critique, Tzaph, is that I developed the explanations for God after my encounter using what we know from SCIENCE. THEN because my Synthesis suggests that there is an underlying consciousness (God's consciousness) guiding us (but NOT controlling us), I searched for evidence of its influence and guidance in the "spiritual fossil record." The descriptions and explanations in the evolving spiritual template matched the nature of God as I encountered Him and matched my hypothesized explanations of our purpose.

Evolution is the primary mechanism of all life which meant that our species had to evolve the necessary spiritual ability and understanding of what is guiding us. None of us were succeeding. We were "missing the mark" egregiously in our carnal savagery and barbarity. The many previous spiritual leaders achieved ever more resonance with the guiding consciousness leading to the schoolmaster stage of our spiritual evolution using the fear of God. It was the beginning of wisdom and promoted the development of our self-control of our selfish interests and baser urges.

By the time of Christ, the fields were ripe for the harvest, but ONE of us had to achieve the PERFECT resonance (Identity) with the guiding God's consciousness. Jesus did that perfectly even unto scourging and crucifixion. He loved even His torturers and murderers because they knew not what they did. That is why He is the firstborn of us to connect with God's consciousness. We are connected through His human consciousness reborn as Spirit and manifest as the Comforter sent in His name to further guide us to the Truth God has "written in our hearts." IOW, Tzaph, my acceptance of the mythos came AFTER my hypotheses explaining the existence of God and our relationship to Him, NOT before.
 
Old 01-07-2018, 12:58 PM
 
Location: Red River Texas
22,940 posts, read 10,300,058 times
Reputation: 2300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaylenwoof View Post
I think this is one point on which Mystic and I are fairly close in our thinking. I would say that nature (I generally use the word "Reality") is fundamentally proto-conscious or unconscious (a primordial "deep, dreamless sleep") and basically "wakes up" whenever physical systems evolve into brains of the right sort. Mystic, on the other hand, see nature as fundamentally conscious in a Gods-eye-view sense. But, for both of us, God essentially is nature - not outside of nature. One way to think of it: "Nature" - as the term is used scientifically - is Being's objective aspect - or "God' embodiment, so to speak - whereas "God" - as the term is used theologically - is Reality's subjective aspect - the mental/intelligent aspect of Being. God/Subjectivity is not beyond or outside of nature, it is just what it is like to be Being.

I'm agnostic on the question of the primordial consciousness/intelligence of Reality, but do believe, with high confidence, that Reality is at least primordially unconscious (a sort of "qualitative chaos").
What the hell did he just say? LOL, dang, now I gotta get my dictionary out, don't let him use no more big words till I have sorted out this one.
 
Old 01-07-2018, 01:10 PM
 
Location: Red River Texas
22,940 posts, read 10,300,058 times
Reputation: 2300
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
The flaw in your critique, Tzaph, is that I developed the explanations for God after my encounter using what we know from SCIENCE. THEN because my Synthesis suggests that there is an underlying consciousness (God's consciousness) guiding us (but NOT controlling us), I searched for evidence of its influence and guidance in the "spiritual fossil record." The descriptions and explanations in the evolving spiritual template matched the nature of God as I encountered Him and matched my hypothesized explanations of our purpose.

Evolution is the primary mechanism of all life which meant that our species had to evolve the necessary spiritual ability and understanding of what is guiding us. None of us were succeeding. We were "missing the mark" egregiously in our carnal savagery and barbarity. The many previous spiritual leaders achieved ever more resonance with the guiding consciousness leading to the schoolmaster stage of our spiritual evolution using the fear of God. It was the beginning of wisdom and promoted the development of our self-control of our selfish interests and baser urges.

By the time of Christ, the fields were ripe for the harvest, but ONE of us had to achieve the PERFECT resonance (Identity) with the guiding God's consciousness. Jesus did that perfectly even unto scourging and crucifixion. He loved even His torturers and murderers because they knew not what they did. That is why He is the firstborn of us to connect with God's consciousness. We are connected through His human consciousness reborn as Spirit and manifest as the Comforter sent in His name to further guide us to the Truth God has "written in our hearts." IOW, Tzaph, my acceptance of the mythos came AFTER my hypotheses explaining the existence of God and our relationship to Him, NOT before.
Accept for the fact that Jesus could not have been the Messiah in your belief, just as Tzaph says, you are making things up, and cheery picking what you like and don't like. You don't have a Jewish Messiah Mystic.


Do you?


The prophesies of Messiah are extremely specific especially concerning the law, Messiah comes and MAKES Israel keep his judgments, his precepts and his ways because his name is attached to them and Messiah comes making two people, one man, and there shall never be two kingdoms again because Messiah will be king of both Judah and Ephraim, and they will keep his ways and the kings of the world will gather the wealth of the world to sit at the feet of Jews because God has said that he will show the world how much he loves Judah and he comes to them FIRST.


Then we see the rest of the world trying to join Judaism but in most cases, it is already too late, Zechariah insinuates that the coming of the feast of Tabernacles will itself, judge people, and the people who aren't already keeping Sukkot die. The ones who fight against Judah and the ways of Jerusalem, they die, and it is the fire that comes on Sukkot that kills them in a baptism of fire because they were lawless people who stood against everything called of God or worshipped of God. Messiah comes glorifying Judah, and then everyone who is left alive after the feast of Tabernacles will then keep the feast of Tabernacles and the world will have but one religion,'' Judaism.''


Zechariah says that at that time, everyone in Judah will be holy, every vessel, every pot in Judah will be holiness to the Lord when the Lord has come to Judah and handed them the kingdom.


What does your Gentile Jesus do again?


Are you looking for a Messiah coming to do something other than what I have said? You should look again, God is coming to judge the world in how they have treated the Jews, wonder what he will say to you?
 
Old 01-07-2018, 01:19 PM
 
21,957 posts, read 19,080,264 times
Reputation: 18067
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
...acceptance of the mythos came AFTER my hypotheses explaining the existence of God and our relationship to Him, NOT before.
so you are saying it IS a myth. You admit it.

It is (using your phrases here) myth fable magical thinking superstition. Pure speculation, wrapped in the science-y sounding "fossil record."

I am simply pointing out that using your own "logic" you have painted yourself into the "fairy tale" corner. Good to see you finally recognize that and admit it.

Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 01-07-2018 at 01:31 PM..
 
Old 01-07-2018, 02:58 PM
 
63,494 posts, read 39,789,724 times
Reputation: 7807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
so you are saying it IS a myth. You admit it.
It is (using your phrases here) myth fable magical thinking superstition. Pure speculation, wrapped in the science-y sounding "fossil record."
I am simply pointing out that using your own "logic" you have painted yourself into the "fairy tale" corner. Good to see you finally recognize that and admit it.
I have repeatedly drawn a distinction between what I know and extrapolate from science and the overlay of my Christian beliefs. In literature, the word mythos refers to a traditional or recurrent narrative theme or plot structure, not myths as you use it. It refers to a set of beliefs or assumptions about something as in my beliefs about the God I met and explained by science. For example: "the rhetoric and mythos of science create the comforting image of linear progression toward truth." I discovered the recurrent narrative I refer to as the spiritual template in the spiritual fossil record. The Christ narrative epitomizes it and matches my experience of the true nature of God.
 
Old 01-07-2018, 03:14 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
17,071 posts, read 10,861,621 times
Reputation: 1870
Myths, Tzaphkiel, are not just "fairy tales," but a way of expressing ideas and/or ideals, so when Mystic uses the term "mythos" it is in the sense of "(in literature) a traditional or recurrent narrative theme or plot structure." or a widely used form illustrating truths of our human condition. It is a valid area of study for those who don't have an agenda. Look up C. G. Jung, Joseph Campbell and Mircea Eliade for starters.


It helps to actually know what is being talked about.
 
Old 01-07-2018, 04:31 PM
 
21,957 posts, read 19,080,264 times
Reputation: 18067
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
I have repeatedly drawn a distinction between what I know and extrapolate from science and the overlay of my Christian beliefs. In literature, the word mythos refers to a traditional or recurrent narrative theme or plot structure, not myths as you use it. It refers to a set of beliefs or assumptions about something as in my beliefs about the God I met and explained by science. For example: "the rhetoric and mythos of science create the comforting image of linear progression toward truth." I discovered the recurrent narrative I refer to as the spiritual template in the spiritual fossil record. The Christ narrative epitomizes it and matches my experience of the true nature of God.
these are all equivalent in the way you and others use them on the forum:
fairy tale = myth = superstition = magical thinking = speculation = fable

you've painted yourself into the corner. still. again.
its the one where you claim your pet fable is the "true nature of God" and everyone else's views are "magical thinking" "superstition" "LSD drug trip"

Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 01-07-2018 at 05:02 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:24 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top