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Old 01-15-2018, 06:59 AM
 
28,432 posts, read 11,478,132 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
That does not explain the diffefence between God and nature. It does not address God at all. And the question is for mystic in this instance to see if he can differentiate between God and nature. Thus far he has not been able to.

You arach can provide a definition for "omni dude" though. We like to have terms defined and it appears that one is yours
omni-dude: The god I see people in chriantity describe. And other religions.

There is no difference between nature and god, Anymore than there is a difference between you and nature.
"I and the father are one"

 
Old 01-15-2018, 07:03 AM
 
28,432 posts, read 11,478,132 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
It is becoming increasingly obvious that Tzaph does NOT engage in rational or logical thought. She has some variant that she equates with logic and reason but it has no basis in either. It seems grounded in therapeutic or clinical self-examination or self-improvement couched in a pseudo-theological raiment and magical thinking.
kinda sounds like the rest of us.
 
Old 01-15-2018, 08:03 AM
 
21,893 posts, read 19,038,087 times
Reputation: 18007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaylenwoof View Post
It s true that I sometimes pray. Whether it is prayer "to the Divine" depends on what you mean by 'Divine.' I do have a strong intuition that there is, in some sense, "someone listening" but I am agnostic concerning who or what that "someone" is. It could, ultimately, be just my own subconscious. If that is true, then it doesn't change the fact that prayers are effective, although it does have some implications for why and how they are effective. Also, "effective" is a smudgy term. I've prayed to win the lottery a couple of times, but so far that has not worked at all Less self-serving prayers, however, seem to work amazingly well. Mostly, however, I don't really pray "for" things, so it is hard to conceive of what a measurable "effectiveness" would even be, apart from some personal sense of well-being. The vast majority of my prayers are simply expressions of gratitude to whoever/whatever might be able to hear them. I think this works for some perfectly reasonable psychological/neurological reasons, independent of any Divinity who might or might not be listening.
...
One other thing: I don't really know if the Divinity to whom I pray is literally conscious of my prayers (although that would be super-duper cool if She is, and I hope that She is), nor do I think that She has the Omni-powers necessary to ensure that the future unfolds in accordance with Her desires - assuming that She has any desires beyond the individual desires of the conscious beings who, essentially, constitute her "Being-ness".

My strongest intuitions, most frankly and simply, are as follows: Reality is "One Self" who is conscious, but Her consciousness is always, in every case, a matter of "what it is like to be" some physical system, or other. I suspect there are highly advanced consciousness beings (either in our universe and/or other universes) who do, indeed, have the ability to know about us - indeed, even the ability to know about "me" in my current context. (Not entirely unlike the common notions of "angels" or "spirit guides" or "higher-dimensional beings" referred to by trance channelers, etc.) But if these beings exist, they are still physical beings who have natural limits of various sorts because they are, after all, essentially natural beings who happen to have the sorts of advanced technology (or whatever) needed to communicate with beings such as myself. As such, they are probably smarter and wiser than me, and might be excellent spirit guides - and perhaps they are the ones listening when I pray ....

I am grateful to whoever or whatever is responsible for my life, and to whoever might serve as my spirit guides, and I try to remember to consciously nurture and express these feelings of gratitude, but I have no pretentions about knowing, with very much confidence, exactly who or what is out there to accept my gratitude.

My prayers are "To Whom it may concern."
This is lovely.
Thank you for this.

(Still appreciating and going over your posts)

Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 01-15-2018 at 08:19 AM..
 
Old 01-15-2018, 10:49 AM
 
Location: Pacific 🌉 °N, 🌄°W
11,761 posts, read 7,209,307 times
Reputation: 7528
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
i have no interest in watching a 22-minute video by Sam Harris. (or any video by Sam Harris for that matter.)
I get it...you're not interested in learning anything from those who are knowledgeable in the field of neuroscience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
the question is simple. my observation is that people who equate "god" with "nature" seem to be having a difficult time answering it. here in the religion and spirituality forum. (not the science forum. not the philosophy forum. not the atheism forum.)
To be honest with you some of the most intelligent people throughout history have tried to define consciousness and to this day the term consciousness has not been nailed down 100%. Until the day that happens science will continue it's research on consciousness.

In science, for an emergent scientific truth to become an objective scientific truth, (a truth that is true whether or not you believe it or not!), it requires a whole system of independent research conducted by many different scientists around the world. The result of this collective and independent research must all point towards the same result/conclusion/consequences for it to become an objective scientific truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
what is the difference between God and nature?
how does a person differentiate between god and nature?
Nature is real and anyone with functioning cognitive processes experiences it, see's it, interacts with it, it's observable, measurable and predicable. The concept of god was invented by ancient modern humans who were perplexed by the acts of nature that affected their lives. Animism most likely is the culprit of the advent of the god delusion that we find today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
without using the word "consciousness."
use different words to say the same thing.
common words, common language, common usage.
My answer fits your criteria.

Last edited by Matadora; 01-15-2018 at 11:10 AM..
 
Old 01-15-2018, 11:31 AM
 
21,893 posts, read 19,038,087 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matadora View Post
... to this day the term consciousness has not been nailed down 100%. ...
That's why I asked MPD to use different words to expeess whatever it is he is trying to say (in telling us how he differentiates between God and nature)
 
Old 01-15-2018, 11:43 AM
 
21,893 posts, read 19,038,087 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matadora View Post
I get it...you're not interested in learning anything from those who are knowledgeable in the field of neuroscience....
When the topic is God, i dont look to atheists. Or neuroscience. That is correct.
 
Old 01-15-2018, 11:51 AM
 
Location: Pacific 🌉 °N, 🌄°W
11,761 posts, read 7,209,307 times
Reputation: 7528
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
When the topic is God, i dont look to atheists. Or neuroscience. That is correct.
LOL! The god topic is not exclusive to who you think it's exclusive to.

There are no god experts on this earth...only those who claim to be.

Anyone and everyone has the same right to join in on the topic of the god delusion.

I don't ascribe to your beliefs in an all exclusive mentality. Those mentalities are a danger to society.

It's clear that you are not interested in learning anything outside of your narrow religious viewpoint. Too bad for you as this is not the way the world works.
 
Old 01-15-2018, 12:16 PM
 
21,893 posts, read 19,038,087 times
Reputation: 18007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matadora View Post
...Anyone and everyone has the same right to join in on the topic of the god delusion....
If someone sees God as a delusion, they indicate that they do not have anything substantive to offer on cultivating a nourishing relationship with God.
 
Old 01-15-2018, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Pacific 🌉 °N, 🌄°W
11,761 posts, read 7,209,307 times
Reputation: 7528
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
If someone sees God as a delusion, they indicate that they do not have anything substantive to offer on cultivating a nourishing relationship with God.
That's not what we were discussing and you know it. We were discussing consciousness and the concept of god.

Anyone can discuss these concepts. They are not all EXCLUSIVE for only just some to discuss.

You have some of the most narrow views I have ever come across on this forum.

I agree with Mystic's assessment of you.

Quote:
It is becoming increasingly obvious that Tzaph does NOT engage in rational or logical thought. She has some variant that she equates with logic and reason but it has no basis in either. It seems grounded in therapeutic or clinical self-examination or self-improvement couched in a pseudo-theological raiment and magical thinking.
 
Old 01-15-2018, 12:42 PM
 
Location: Red River Texas
22,833 posts, read 10,236,681 times
Reputation: 2289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matadora View Post
That's not what we were discussing and you know it. We were discussing consciousness and the concept of god.

Anyone can discuss these concepts. They are not all EXCLUSIVE for only just some to discuss.

You have some of the most narrow views I have ever come across on this forum.

I agree with Mystic's assessment of you.
I think Tzaphy is probably the most intelligent person on this forum, isn't Mystic the Messiah himself?


I suppose you have to agree with your Messiah friend, after all, he is the Messiah isn't he?
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