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Old 01-17-2018, 09:15 AM
 
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I think it is a great story designed to explore a number of facets of humanity, including how we came to be a species capable of doing the most beautiful as well as the ugliest acts, and also that knowledge can be a blessing or a curse. It shows the paradoxical nature of humanity.

I don't think there is any factual basis for the story whatsoever, and there doesn't need to be.

The Adam and Eve story gave rise to some magnificent artwork and creative inspiration, right up to Hozier's lyrics, "I slithered here from Eden just to sit outside your door."
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Old 01-17-2018, 09:18 AM
 
47,182 posts, read 47,171,917 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by l8gr8apost8 View Post
adam and eve weren't ashamed of themselves before they ate that fruit. That's when they tried to hide from god because now they thought something was wrong with them. i wasn't born knowing there was something wrong with me that needed saving. That's where religion comes in.
+1
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Old 01-17-2018, 12:45 PM
Status: "shine bright like a diamond." (set 1 hour ago)
 
1,500 posts, read 681,923 times
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I'm listening to this song right now,I had no idea about it,it's stunning.

Highly reccomended.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cI0wUoCLnLk

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post

The Adam and Eve story gave rise to some magnificent artwork and creative inspiration, right up to Hozier's lyrics, "I slithered here from Eden just to sit outside your door."
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Old 01-17-2018, 02:07 PM
 
1,910 posts, read 506,829 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein View Post
I believe the story is about how man was better off as an advanced primate living in the equatorial habitat, being gatherers and not hunters or farmers.

Man "ate from the tree of knowledge" and with this knowledge migrated out of the so called garden and had to use his knowledge to live in less hospitable environments. Had to hunt for clothing and food. Had to toil in the fields to provide grains and vegetables.

The writer of Genesis was basically saying it was a lot better when all we had to do was pick low hanging fruit.
I find this idea very interesting. My opinion is similar, I think the Adam and Eve story is about the dangers of ambition. Two people that lived in a literal paradise with everything they needed handed to them for the taking and they still couldn't just kick back and enjoy it. It is a metaphor for learning to be happy with what you have.
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Old 01-17-2018, 04:10 PM
 
Location: minnesota
4,152 posts, read 1,279,451 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiethegreat View Post
I'm listening to this song right now,I had no idea about it,it's stunning.

Highly reccomended.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cI0wUoCLnLk
Yes it is!
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Old 01-17-2018, 05:57 PM
 
Location: minnesota
4,152 posts, read 1,279,451 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
The 'fall' of mankind was something that needed to happen in order for people to have free will. Satan needed to do what he did, so we would all have a choice. a faux story about angels rebelling and being thrown out of heaven is just an easier way for people to get the jist of the story, its something we can relate to, it would be much more complicated to try and explain that Satan was created for the part he was to play, and that in order to have a choice, there needed to be an alternative.

If you go the car lot and they only have one car for sale, the buyer does not really have a choice, must be at least 2 selections available, for there to be a choice.
The choice would be not to buy the car. What if there were 1000 cars on the lot and they only showed you 2? Would you feel as if you were allowed to make a choice then?
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Old 01-19-2018, 02:26 PM
 
3,163 posts, read 1,058,867 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
Since this is not Christian, per se...it is here in Religion.

What is your take on the garden, fruit, Eden story?
The word 'blame' was brought up in another thread...do you think God 'blamed'
Adam and Eve?
I don't.

I thought it was clear, (but I see, now, like mud).
Again, my take shouldn't influence the direction of this thread...I can give my take later on.

Do you think it is all metaphor? Do think it happened?
Anything goes...are you mad at God for the whole thing?

Oh, and when I say 'your take'...I didn't mean long copy/pasts of Bible verses...but I suppose that will be inevitable.
From the Islamic perspective, there is actually lot more meaningful part of the story before eating of the forbidden fruit event even happen.

God created man to be sent to earth BEFORE anything happened.
So our life on earth is NOT a consequence of Adam's eating the forbidden fruit.

2:30 when your Lord said to the angels, ‘I am putting a successor (human) on earth ,’ they said, ‘How can You put someone there who will cause damage and bloodshed, when we celebrate Your praise and proclaim Your holiness?’ but He said, ‘I know things you do not.’

Perhaps the following 10 odd minutes will open up the gate to a new world to you, and you should find your answer as to "are you mad at God for the whole thing?"

Please watch from 33:00 to 46:17


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OGm5I6Ccz8&t=1985s

Last edited by GoCardinals; 01-19-2018 at 02:48 PM..
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Old 01-19-2018, 03:48 PM
 
3,163 posts, read 1,058,867 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8 View Post
I wan't born knowing there was something wrong with me that needed saving. That's were religion comes in.

Yes, indeed.
However, later when you grew up, you realized that you have certain resources, certain powers, a certain amount of energy, skills and intelligence, but most of all, you have a certain amount of time.

So what set of rules and guidelines you should use to make the best of your time?

This is where the option of getting guidance from a certain faith comes.

1 - Some people decide to get this guidance so they research certain religion and it's message towards humanity. If talks talks to their heart, they form the faith and try to live a life accordingly.

Some exceptions in this group are that, some people adapt a religious based life style but they fail to understand the core message and hence they fail strike a balance in religious guidance based life. And therefore they could go on extremes or blindly push their agenda on others. This is obviously not right.

If the concept of "being born with a fault that creates the necessity of being save by Jesus" does not sit well with your logic and intelligence, then it doesn't automatically mean that a creator of the universe does not exist.

However, I see this quite often. Out of Christianity, straight into Atheism. Very seldom, ex-Christians actually try to genuinely find God in other religions. They simply jump into Atheism.

2 - And then there is the other group that does NOT choose to take the guidance from a religion. It's a choice and use of freewill that they become Atheists or Agnostics under the pretense of "since there is no tangible, verifiable, and repeatable scientific evidence, God does not exist. Or I don't know and neither care whether God exists or not".

The common thing between the two groups is that, the energy, resources, powers and intelligence from EVERY MEMBER of both groups is gradually decreasing, and the clock is ticking for both of them.
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Old 01-19-2018, 04:18 PM
 
Location: minnesota
4,152 posts, read 1,279,451 times
Reputation: 1510
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
Yes, indeed.
However, later when you grew up, you realized that you have certain resources, certain powers, a certain amount of energy, skills and intelligence, but most of all, you have a certain amount of time.

So what set of rules and guidelines you should use to make the best of your time?

This is where the option of getting guidance from a certain faith comes.

1 - Some people decide to get this guidance so they research certain religion and it's message towards humanity. If talks talks to their heart, they form the faith and try to live a life accordingly.

Some exceptions in this group are that, some people adapt a religious based life style but they fail to understand the core message and hence they fail strike a balance in religious guidance based life. And therefore they could go on extremes or blindly push their agenda on others. This is obviously not right.

If the concept of "being born with a fault that creates the necessity of being save by Jesus" does not sit well with your logic and intelligence, then it doesn't automatically mean that a creator of the universe does not exist.

However, I see this quite often. Out of Christianity, straight into Atheism. Very seldom, ex-Christians actually try to genuinely find God in other religions. They simply jump into Atheism.

2 - And then there is the other group that does NOT choose to take the guidance from a religion. It's a choice and use of freewill that they become Atheists or Agnostics under the pretense of "since there is no tangible, verifiable, and repeatable scientific evidence, God does not exist. Or I don't know and neither care whether God exists or not".

The common thing between the two groups is that, the energy, resources, powers and intelligence from EVERY MEMBER of both groups is gradually decreasing, and the clock is ticking for both of them.
It doesn't sit well with my "soul". I would never say those things to another human being. It's offensive to me emotionally. I'm an emotional reasoner so suggesting I came about the conclusion of atheism out of some long thought out logic is incorrect. Luckily I'm aware that because I want something to be true I'm likely to look at things to make them fit what I want. Based on that I had to admit my personal feelings had other, better (Occam's razor), explanations and I was giving way too much credit to personal experience.

The progression for me was...indoctrinated sect member in the sect...indoctrinated out of the sect..caught sect lying...realized I was indoctrinated but still believer...free from indoctrination (as much as can be)...straight believer...found my own way to "Jesus"..made peace with it...let go of it. This took decades, there was no jumping.
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Old 01-19-2018, 04:36 PM
 
Location: minnesota
4,152 posts, read 1,279,451 times
Reputation: 1510
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
From the Islamic perspective, there is actually lot more meaningful part of the story before eating of the forbidden fruit event even happen.

God created man to be sent to earth BEFORE anything happened.
So our life on earth is NOT a consequence of Adam's eating the forbidden fruit.

2:30 when your Lord said to the angels, ‘I am putting a successor (human) on earth ,’ they said, ‘How can You put someone there who will cause damage and bloodshed, when we celebrate Your praise and proclaim Your holiness?’ but He said, ‘I know things you do not.’

Perhaps the following 10 odd minutes will open up the gate to a new world to you, and you should find your answer as to "are you mad at God for the whole thing?"

Please watch from 33:00 to 46:17


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OGm5I6Ccz8&t=1985s
Yeah, that man found something that spoke to him. Good for him. To me it looks like an explanation for the way things are that was written after the fact. Someone can start with the facts and work backward that's not a big deal. Predicting something is another matter. If what he believes is True then it should be useful in predicting things. Not things you have to die to see either.
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