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Old 01-19-2018, 04:39 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
From the Islamic perspective, there is actually lot more meaningful part of the story before eating of the forbidden fruit event even happen.

God created man to be sent to earth BEFORE anything happened.
So our life on earth is NOT a consequence of Adam's eating the forbidden fruit.

2:30 when your Lord said to the angels, ‘I am putting a successor (human) on earth ,’ they said, ‘How can You put someone there who will cause damage and bloodshed, when we celebrate Your praise and proclaim Your holiness?’ but He said, ‘I know things you do not.’

Perhaps the following 10 odd minutes will open up the gate to a new world to you, and you should find your answer as to "are you mad at God for the whole thing?"

Please watch from 33:00 to 46:17


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OGm5I6Ccz8&t=1985s
Sorry- I got bored (1) with his life story about how he became an atheist, let alone how he became a Muslim (if there was a Good reason it'll be the first one I ever heard) , so why don't you just save us a lot of time and tell us what he said?

(1) I found that either accoustic or his mumbling made it hard to listen to, as well.
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Old 01-19-2018, 04:46 PM
 
Location: minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Sorry- I got bored (1) with his life story about how he became an atheist, let alone how he became a Muslim (if there was a Good reason it'll be the first one I ever heard) , so why don't you just save us a lot of time and tell us what he said?

(1) I found that either accoustic or his mumbling made it hard to listen to, as well.
I watched the parts GC said to watch. Toward the end he quoted something about "going within" to get the answers. We do that, come out with a different answer, and people lose their freaking minds when our answers don't agree with theirs. I think they are missing part of the lesson.
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Old 01-19-2018, 04:48 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
Yes, indeed.
However, later when you grew up, you realized that you have certain resources, certain powers, a certain amount of energy, skills and intelligence, but most of all, you have a certain amount of time.

So what set of rules and guidelines you should use to make the best of your time?

This is where the option of getting guidance from a certain faith comes.

1 - Some people decide to get this guidance so they research certain religion and it's message towards humanity. If talks talks to their heart, they form the faith and try to live a life accordingly.

Some exceptions in this group are that, some people adapt a religious based life style but they fail to understand the core message and hence they fail strike a balance in religious guidance based life. And therefore they could go on extremes or blindly push their agenda on others. This is obviously not right.

If the concept of "being born with a fault that creates the necessity of being save by Jesus" does not sit well with your logic and intelligence, then it doesn't automatically mean that a creator of the universe does not exist.

However, I see this quite often. Out of Christianity, straight into Atheism. Very seldom, ex-Christians actually try to genuinely find God in other religions. They simply jump into Atheism.

2 - And then there is the other group that does NOT choose to take the guidance from a religion. It's a choice and use of freewill that they become Atheists or Agnostics under the pretense of "since there is no tangible, verifiable, and repeatable scientific evidence, God does not exist. Or I don't know and neither care whether God exists or not".

The common thing between the two groups is that, the energy, resources, powers and intelligence from EVERY MEMBER of both groups is gradually decreasing, and the clock is ticking for both of them.
Actually, a greadual (and reluctant) increasing atheism is more common. Some people do just drop it as you say, but more often it is a gradual process of abandoning organized religion (sometimes after trying ne or two others) and become an "Agnostic" (irreligious theist). Then they may (or may not realize that the reasons to believe in any god are no better than the reasons to believe in any specific god.

It may fit neatly into your hypothesis but it would stand up to scrutiny better if you based your claims on what actually is correct.

And I agree the power and influence of the apologetics for 'both groups' (if you meant Christian and Muslim) is decreasing, though I can't concur with your remark on intelligence or resources. But as people hear OUR side of the argument more than they ever did, and we won't be shut up and the more they try to silence us the louder we shout, the more they realize that we have the better arguments and they have only Faith, when it comes down to it.

So indeed, I agree the clock is ticking for both groups.
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Old 01-19-2018, 04:51 PM
 
33,794 posts, read 8,593,522 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8 View Post
I watched the parts GC said to watch. Toward the end he quoted something about "going within" to get the answers. We do that, come out with a different answer, and people lose their freaking minds when our answers don't agree with theirs. I think they are missing part of the lesson.
Well, maybe out pal can elucidate more, but it reminds me of the conversions where people were saearching and for one reason or another, gravitated towards one particular religion and just realing a pretty meaningless little passage was enough to tip them over. Going Within, of course simply means adopting Faith and reading whatever you want into the scriptures. Still sounds like not a good reason to me, but maybe there's more.
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Old 01-19-2018, 04:57 PM
 
Location: minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Well, maybe out pal can elucidate more, but it reminds me of the conversions where people were saearching and for one reason or another, gravitated towards one particular religion and just realing a pretty meaningless little passage was enough to tip them over. Going Within, of course simply means adopting Faith and reading whatever you want into the scriptures. Still sounds like not a good reason to me, but maybe there's more.
I see going within as weeding out all the things you were told to see and believe (maybe unlearning) and coming out with how you, and only you, relate to your environment.
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Old 01-19-2018, 05:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
Since this is not Christian, per se...it is here in Religion.

What is your take on the garden, fruit, Eden story?
The word 'blame' was brought up in another thread...do you think God 'blamed'
Adam and Eve?
I don't.

I thought it was clear, (but I see, now, like mud).
Again, my take shouldn't influence the direction of this thread...I can give my take later on.

Do you think it is all metaphor? Do think it happened?
Anything goes...are you mad at God for the whole thing?

Oh, and when I say 'your take'...I didn't mean long copy/pasts of Bible verses...but I suppose that will be inevitable.
What's REALLY interesting about this story (assuming that it happened) is that "evil" had already existed. Also, God refers to himself in the plural (this happened in Genesis 1 as well). Pay close attention to what God says after he cursed Adam and Eve for eating the fruit.

Genesis 3:22
Quote:
Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”
In order "to know good and evil" means that God had already created this duality. And since God is all-knowing, he created Adam and Eve with full knowledge that they WOULD in fact discover good and evil.

What "father" sets his children up for a curse that he knew he was going to place on them? What father curses his kids anyway? My take is that God has got issues with power and control. He also appears to be suffering from some sort of multiple personality disorder; referring to himself as "us" and all.

I say this not as an insult to anyone's faith. I'm simply speaking on the literature of the Genesis 3 God (and I don't believe any God actually existed, so you can't insult things that are not real).

Last edited by urbancharlotte; 01-19-2018 at 06:04 PM..
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Old 01-19-2018, 06:02 PM
 
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Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the Adam became like first man, to know (or make known) good and evil.

Good-and-evil might be the name of the serpent.
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Old 01-19-2018, 06:03 PM
 
Location: minnesota
5,033 posts, read 1,603,826 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbancharlotte View Post
What's REALLY interesting about this story (assuming that it happened) is that "evil" had already existed. Also, God refers to himself in the plural (this happened in Genesis 1 as well). Pay close attention to what God says after he cursed Adam and Eve for eating the fruit.

Genesis 3:22

In order "to know good and evil" means that God had already created this duality. And since God is all-knowing, he created Adam and Eve with full knowledge that they WOULD in fact discover good and evil.

What "father" sets his children up for a curse that he knew he was going to place on them? What father curses his kids anyway? My take is that God has got issues with power and control. He also appears to be suffering from some sort of multiple personality disorder; referring to himself as "us" and all.
Great point! I read that scripture and it says the reason they were expelled from the Garden of Eden was to prevent them from eating of the tree of life and becoming immortal.

Gen 3

21The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife, and clothed them. 22Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"-- 23therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken.…

the plot thickens.
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Old 01-19-2018, 06:10 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
18,610 posts, read 8,698,684 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbancharlotte View Post
What's REALLY interesting about this story (assuming that it happened) is that "evil" had already existed. Also, God refers to himself in the plural (this happened in Genesis 1 as well). Pay close attention to what God says after he cursed Adam and Eve for eating the fruit.

Genesis 3:22

In order "to know good and evil" means that God had already created this duality. And since God is all-knowing, he created Adam and Eve with full knowledge that they WOULD in fact discover good and evil.

What "father" sets his children up for a curse that he knew he was going to place on them? What father curses his kids anyway? My take is that God has got issues with power and control. He also appears to be suffering from some sort of multiple personality disorder; referring to himself as "us" and all.

I say this not as an insult to anyone's faith. I'm simply speaking on the literature of the Genesis 3 God (and I don't believe any God actually existed, so you can't insult things that are not real).
Very interesting post. Thank you!
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Old 01-19-2018, 06:13 PM
 
33,794 posts, read 8,593,522 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8 View Post
I see going within as weeding out all the things you were told to see and believe (maybe unlearning) and coming out with how you, and only you, relate to your environment.
You mean cherry - picking the Quran? I just hope the Muslim Brotherhood isn't watching that video.
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