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I read some more of her stuff. I think she did a really good job summing up the fundamentalist mindset. It is in direction opposition to humans having intrinsic value.
The Spiritual Problem with Being True to Yourself
Here’s the kicker: As Christians, we should absolutely NOT be true to our natural selves…because the Bible says our natural selves have some serious problems:
We are sinners by nature (see Romans 7:14).
Our natural mind is hostile to God (see Romans 8:7-8).
We consider the things of God foolishness (see 1 Corinthians 2:14).
We all fall short of God’s glory (see Romans 3:23).
Without God, we are hopeless (see pretty much the whole Bible).
Our natural selves are so spiritually problematic that the Bible says we must be born again (that is, take on a new self) in order to see the kingdom of God (John 3:3). This new birth is possible only through the Holy Spirit that we are given when we accept Jesus as our Savior.
My mental image is more like this, trolls used to live in caves or under bridges,
in the 21st century trolls spend most of their time in moms basement posting
hostility toward Christians or conservatives.
Exactly, you only have to look at how often they use the word Satanic, demonic, then saying others are going to Hellfire etc, to see what trolls they are. (but that would not even be seen as trolling to them, just telling the truth)
Christianity has evolved over time, some sects dislike others. This occurs in many established religions.
If you accept Jesus as your savior, and know the way to the kingdom of heaven is through him, and honor the 10 commandments, you should have clear sailing. I'm certain you didn't post this to troll, but to gather insight.
My mental image is more like this, trolls used to live in caves or under bridges, in the 21st century trolls spend most of their time in moms basement posting hostility toward Christians or conservatives.
Given my posting history, and that calling someone a troll is against TOS, I'm sure you're not calling me a troll.
If you believe the three things you stated are true, then what are you doing to combat the rising fundamentalist movement that declares everyone must live and believe the specific way that they teach otherwise they are condemned to hell?
To a non-Christian, everyone who takes the Bible and matters of doctrine seriously is a "fundamentalist," with the term carrying a negative connotation that it never has within Christianity. "Fundies" - ewwwww, icky. "Progressive" Christianity, on the other hand - ah, that's like being "gay" or supporting women's "reproductive health."
Actually, I know exactly who and what fundamentalists are. They are very clear about declaring and defining themselves, so it's not difficult. It has a negative connotation because of their negative actions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troglodyte74
Christianity is about something. It is not about "feeling warm and fuzzy when you think of Jesus" or "doing nice things and saying Jesus sent you." It is about the core doctrines being believed and carried into action. Of course atheists and the followers of other religions are going to feel less threatened by, and more warm toward, the "Christian" who proclaims "None of that primitive Bible stuff really matters as long as we love each other. I'll do my Jesus thing and you do your atheist thing and it'll all be OK as long we have love and peace." That is not Christianity. It is a perversion of Christianity that any mainstream Christian, not just a fundamentalist or evangelical, would recognize as a perversion. It is not what Jesus was talking about unless your "Jesus" is a figment of your own imagination, having no relationship to the historical Jesus.
And who gets to define those core doctrines? Who has the authority to say "This is exactly and only what the Bible says, and anyone who disagrees is incorrect and believes in a perversion." Who on earth would feel like they can declare such a thing for everyone in the whole world?
You declare that what you believe is what Jesus was talking about, but I've read the same Bible you have. And I don't see any of the love of Jesus in current fundamentalist doctrine. I see the desire to control people, to make people afraid, and afraid to think for themselves, to make them think they are horrible, worthless people even if they are actually great people doing wonderful things, and I see boundless hypocrisy. But I don't see the message of Jesus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troglodyte74=
Again, Christianity is about something. Atheists and pretend Christians would like it to be about nothing. Just calling yourself a Christian is indeed not enough.
I don't disagree that it is about something, nor did I declare what atheists and "pretend Christians" want. I don't know what they want, I'm not one of them. But I never stated that calling oneself a Christian was enough, that was all you.
What I did say what I was taught was that the CORE message of Jesus in my first post, and I'm pointing out how ridiculous it is that certain types of Christians need to declare that being a Christian isn't enough if you don't believe and act exactly as they teach "true Christians" should.
My mental image is more like this, trolls used to live in caves or under bridges, in the 21st century trolls spend most of their time in moms basement posting hostility toward Christians or conservatives.
Do you think so? Well I have news for you, sunshine Trolls exist no more than your god does, but a ToS on dishing out accusations of trolling just because you don't like what somebody says, DOES exist. I promise you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
That goes both ways, needless to say.
He was annoyed, not Trolling. And I don't mind a bit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek41
Exactly, you only have to look at how often they use the word Satanic, demonic, then saying others are going to Hellfire etc, to see what trolls they are. (but that would not even be seen as trolling to them, just telling the truth)
Thanks for re- railing that line . Yes, there is an element of dishing out the most corrosive spew and then being genuinely surprised and aggrieved when they get banned " We were simply stating the truth!"
To a non-Christian, everyone who takes the Bible and matters of doctrine seriously is a "fundamentalist," with the term carrying a negative connotation that it never has within Christianity. "Fundies" - ewwwww, icky. "Progressive" Christianity, on the other hand - ah, that's like being "gay" or supporting women's "reproductive health."
There is certainly a high degree of fragmentation within the Christian community, no question about that. The more any group strays from core doctrines, the more likely it is to be regarded as "not Christian at all" - to wit, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons and yes, even Catholics. This is not to say Jehovah's Witnesses are regarded as non-Christian throughout mainstream Christianity, merely that if you do stray from core doctrines (the Trinity, the divinity of Christ) you are going to find yourself open to this charge from some segments of the mainstream community. Only the most extreme segments would suggest Catholics are flatly not Christians at all, and I have only seen this view expressed by folks I would regard as a bit unhinged myself. The writings of Natasha Crain (the blog author) do not strike me as coming from a wild-eyed fundamentalist but from a mainstream apologist with genuine concerns that I share.
Christianity is about something. It is not about "feeling warm and fuzzy when you think of Jesus" or "doing nice things and saying Jesus sent you." It is about the core doctrines being believed and carried into action. Of course atheists and the followers of other religions are going to feel less threatened by, and more warm toward, the "Christian" who proclaims "None of that primitive Bible stuff really matters as long as we love each other. I'll do my Jesus thing and you do your atheist thing and it'll all be OK as long we have love and peace." That is not Christianity. It is a perversion of Christianity that any mainstream Christian, not just a fundamentalist or evangelical, would recognize as a perversion. It is not what Jesus was talking about unless your "Jesus" is a figment of your own imagination, having no relationship to the historical Jesus.
Natasha Crain acknowledges that so-called "progressive Christianity" can be hard to precisely define. She lists the following indicia:
A lowered view of the Bible
Feelings are emphasized over facts
Essential Christian doctrines are open for reinterpretation
Historic terms are redefined
The heart of the gospel message shifts from sin and redemption to social justice
She goes on to state: "Here’s the danger. To the untrained ear, the progressive Christian message can sound a lot like biblical Christianity. There’s talk of God, Jesus, the Bible, love, and compassion. If a child has never learned to think more deeply about theology and what the Bible actually teaches, they can easily mistake progressive Christianity for biblical Christianity."
I believe this is correct. In fact, I would be even more harsh and say "they can easily mistake progressive 'Christianity' for Christianity, which it simply isn't." It's a counterfeit. To be a Christian, you do indeed have to be "the right kind" of Christian to at least some degree. Is a kind and loving Buddhist or atheist the right kind of Christian? No, I don't think anyone would say so. Do I become the right kind of Christian if I preach peace and love in the name of Christ while reinventing the historical Jesus, rejecting key teachings and doctrines as primitive hogwash, and ignoring the central Christian message that human nature is tainted by sin and in need of redemption through the atoning sacrifice of Jesus if the judgment of God is to be avoided? No, I don't think I do.
Again, Christianity is about something. Atheists and pretend Christians would like it to be about nothing. Just calling yourself a Christian is indeed not enough.
To a non-Christian, everyone who takes the Bible and matters of doctrine seriously is a "fundamentalist," with the term carrying a negative connotation that it never has within Christianity. "Fundies" - ewwwww, icky. "Progressive" Christianity, on the other hand - ah, that's like being "gay" or supporting women's "reproductive health."
There is certainly a high degree of fragmentation within the Christian community, no question about that. The more any group strays from core doctrines, the more likely it is to be regarded as "not Christian at all" - to wit, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons and yes, even Catholics. This is not to say Jehovah's Witnesses are regarded as non-Christian throughout mainstream Christianity, merely that if you do stray from core doctrines (the Trinity, the divinity of Christ) you are going to find yourself open to this charge from some segments of the mainstream community. Only the most extreme segments would suggest Catholics are flatly not Christians at all, and I have only seen this view expressed by folks I would regard as a bit unhinged myself. The writings of Natasha Crain (the blog author) do not strike me as coming from a wild-eyed fundamentalist but from a mainstream apologist with genuine concerns that I share.
Christianity is about something. It is not about "feeling warm and fuzzy when you think of Jesus" or "doing nice things and saying Jesus sent you." It is about the core doctrines being believed and carried into action. Of course atheists and the followers of other religions are going to feel less threatened by, and more warm toward, the "Christian" who proclaims "None of that primitive Bible stuff really matters as long as we love each other. I'll do my Jesus thing and you do your atheist thing and it'll all be OK as long we have love and peace." That is not Christianity. It is a perversion of Christianity that any mainstream Christian, not just a fundamentalist or evangelical, would recognize as a perversion. It is not what Jesus was talking about unless your "Jesus" is a figment of your own imagination, having no relationship to the historical Jesus.
Natasha Crain acknowledges that so-called "progressive Christianity" can be hard to precisely define. She lists the following indicia:
A lowered view of the Bible
Feelings are emphasized over facts
Essential Christian doctrines are open for reinterpretation
Historic terms are redefined
The heart of the gospel message shifts from sin and redemption to social justice
She goes on to state: "Here’s the danger. To the untrained ear, the progressive Christian message can sound a lot like biblical Christianity. There’s talk of God, Jesus, the Bible, love, and compassion. If a child has never learned to think more deeply about theology and what the Bible actually teaches, they can easily mistake progressive Christianity for biblical Christianity."
I believe this is correct. In fact, I would be even more harsh and say "they can easily mistake progressive 'Christianity' for Christianity, which it simply isn't." It's a counterfeit. To be a Christian, you do indeed have to be "the right kind" of Christian to at least some degree. Is a kind and loving Buddhist or atheist the right kind of Christian? No, I don't think anyone would say so. Do I become the right kind of Christian if I preach peace and love in the name of Christ while reinventing the historical Jesus, rejecting key teachings and doctrines as primitive hogwash, and ignoring the central Christian message that human nature is tainted by sin and in need of redemption through the atoning sacrifice of Jesus if the judgment of God is to be avoided? No, I don't think I do.
Again, Christianity is about something. Atheists and pretend Christians would like it to be about nothing. Just calling yourself a Christian is indeed not enough.
Perhaps if you would outline what your "core values" are, some of us more liberal Jesus followers could challenge you using nothing but Scripture.
I dearly love to point out to fundamentalists how contorted some of their "values" are as they damn to hell good people for having other points of view. And, oh yes, I was a fundamentalist, attended a conservative Southern Baptist college, and am only three hours shy of a Bible minor. One can only understand what the Bible truly says if they can escape the garbage that too often is passed off in Sunday School without a nickel's worth of cultural studies and and by not bothering to study the many conflicting "laws" and rules of the OT to get a grasp of why there were differences. Instead "conservative" (translated "fundamentalist") Christians create fictional stories, not one of which is in the Bible to "explain" (read "make me not look so gullible") the contrary stories.
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Trolls exist no more than your god does, but a ToS on dishing out accusations of trolling just because you don't like what somebody says, DOES exist. I promise you.
He was annoyed, not Trolling. And I don't mind a bit.
. Yes, there is an element of dishing out the most corrosive spew and then being genuinely surprised and aggrieved when they get banned " 
We were simply stating the truth!"
