What if 97% of humans are just "expendable extras" in the drama of life? (Buddhism, door-to-door)
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You are confusing the goal with achievement, Arq. Our Goal is love for all life with a consideration for the well-being of all involved whenever we act. We all fall far short of the goal (except for Jesus), but that in no way negates the validity or value of the goal. The connotation "hippy dippy" has too much association with the sexual free love movement of the sixties but that is NOT the kind of love involved.
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Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER
No, old mate. YOU are confusing the goal with the achievement. Sure, I can see the need for 'Love' in the sense of maximizing peaceful, tolerant and productive co -existence to make our future possible.
What I don't see it as, is some kind of divine magical potion that is already here in the outstretched invisible hand of God which will turn us into perfect human beans full of perfect love, like yourself and Tzaph, old wasp.
It is something that we need to work towards and I see better logical thinking and understanding of ourselves and the instinctive urges hat drive us as the best hope for making it better.
I do not see it as some magical spell to be accessed if they just find the right belief -system.
You know I eschew anything magical, Arq. In large measure what you have said simply rewords my assertions. The part you miss is that we are NOT individuals. We are part of our species' collective consciousness that is part of the Cosmic Consciousness that establishes our LIVING reality. Our species' consciousness needed to merge with (achieve perfect resonance with) the Cosmic consciousness. (Are you familiar with resonance, Arq?) Everything is vibratory down to the so-called "particle events" the physicists insist on smashing and naming. The importance of resonance, dissonance, and discord is best understood in the analogous realm of music. Something off-key in a symphony is immediately recognized as not belonging to the piece. Our job is to NOT be off-key in our Cosmic symphony of life.
I have a friend who is well-known in New Age circles and actually has a small cult-like following. He believes that what we call reality exists for the benefit of a small group of elites – perhaps 3% of the population. The other 97% are expendable “Hollywood extras” whose lives have no real purpose or meaning except to provide learning experiences and amusement for the elites. They have no more reality than the characters in a video game.
My friend, of course, believes he is one of the elites.
Sounds like your friend has at least two of the three parts of the Dark Triad of Personality. Maybe all three. Does he screw in light bulbs by holding them up to the socket and letting the world revolve around him?
You know I eschew anything magical, Arq. In large measure what you have said simply rewords my assertions. The part you miss is that we are NOT individuals. We are part of our species' collective consciousness that is part of the Cosmic Consciousness that establishes our LIVING reality. Our species' consciousness needed to merge with (achieve perfect resonance with) the Cosmic consciousness. (Are you familiar with resonance, Arq?) Everything is vibratory down to the so-called "particle events" the physicists insist on smashing and naming. The importance of resonance, dissonance, and discord is best understood in the analogous realm of music. Something off-key in a symphony is immediately recognized as not belonging to the piece. Our job is to NOT be off-key in our Cosmic symphony of life.
We are individuals just as each car is an individual car. There is not a cosmic spirit of Automotive. Nor is there (for all anyone can show) a Cosmic consciousness. We are made (genetically) to do simiilar things and mentally, too, because of the genetic make up. Cars do similar things because they are made to do so.
So in fact in large measure you have anticipated my words and Interpreted them to suit your Cosmic Consciousness hypothesis, for which I have seen not a shred of decent, valid, evidence.
You are wasting your time with the analogy of music. Music is a human convention - no doubt with a lot of preferences about which intervals sound nice and which don't.
I have said this before -an analogy is ok to explain in a simpler way a known fact that is too complicated to understand easily. When it it used as an analogy of something that hasn't been shown true, it is at best explaining the idea, but at worst is used to argue that This is tru,e so by analogy, That must be true, too.
That's whatIi think you are trying to do. You must know better than to try to explain to me the workings of your hypothesis when you haven't produced a scrap of a good reason to persuade me that it is true.
I can't help but marvel a how perfectly with "the physicists insist on smashing and naming." you echo the point I made in ToR where Saruman is bashed by the Catholic and rather Luddite Tolkien for 'breaking a thing to find out what it is"
And of course I know what resonance is; at one time I studied Sitar. And I know that some of the most beautiful music uses dissonance. Fuzzy and rather suspect argument by analogy will get you precisely nowhere.
...
That is of course the Question. With those 'Elite group' theories, the person propounding it always seems to assume they are one of the elite. And why? Because they thought idea up, apparently. It all smacks of thew idea of religion or cults. Superiority and privilege is assumed because they are an elect group. If he group is a tiny one, they will tend to isolate themselves from the rest of the unclean world and exercise total power of those in it.
Can't complain too much about what is a human -primate instinct of social group - structure, but religion seems to have a particularly unhealthy and unjustified version of it.
P.s. I didn't quite get that you were putting yourself up, Trog, as one of the Elite - just putting the idea. But the first thing one thinks with postulated elites entitles to the privileges and best of everything in this life and a next is: "How do I get into it?"
So Trans, is trog one of yours too? Again? It rather looks that way.
So Trans, is trog one of yours too? Again? It rather looks that way.
I don't know. I rather thought he was a Theist of some kind. In any case, he is what he is, and arguments are not theist or atheist - they are valid or not.
P.s. I didn't quite get that you were putting yourself up, Trog, as one of the Elite - just putting the idea. But the first thing one thinks with postulated elites entitles to the privileges and best of everything in this life and a next is: "How do I get into it?"
Right, whether I am one of a group of "elites" is irrelevant to my Christianity. I merely raised the issue because we see the concept in belief systems as diverse as my friend's and Calvinist Christianity. It is at least interesting to ponder the question, "What if the world does exist for the benefit of a comparative handful of elites - and what if I'm not one of them?" As I said, the bottom line for me is that I think we have to live our lives as though ours and everyone else's did have equal value.
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Originally Posted by cyrano
Sounds like your friend has at least two of the three parts of the Dark Triad of Personality. Maybe all three. Does he screw in light bulbs by holding them up to the socket and letting the world revolve around him?
I don't know about the light bulbs, but he is really my "former friend" because I dropped him from the roster. Even though he introduced me to my wife and is quite charming in a sociopathic sort of way, I finally concluded "This guy is genuinely evil."
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Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
So Trans, is trog one of yours too? Again? It rather looks that way.
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Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
This is exactly how you described yourself and your purpose and reason for being online. Over on another thread.
Hello? Do you perhaps need to take a break? I do enjoy tweaking people, but it appears that I have tweaked you past the point where it is fun.
"Amoral" - you think I described myself as amoral??? Uh, no, I don't think so. I would be more inclined to describe myself as "moral to the point of fuddy-duddyness," at least by today's prevailing standards. I feel 1000% sure I never even described Troglodyte74 - the C-D forum persona as distinct from the real me - as anything close to amoral.
"Arrogant" - Troglodyte74 is obnoxiously, albeit superficially, arrogant for the calculated reasons I described, and the real me is at least somewhat arrogant in the sense of being very confident of my intellectual abilities and very confident I'm right on the issues on which I hold strong views. I know I have an exceptional mind and I know I've done my homework, so in that sense I will plead guilty to that form of arrogance. In many other ways and in many other areas I'm quite humble, although pointing out your own humility is somewhat self-defeating. My friend's arrogance is of the sort whereby he genuinely believes he is of more intrinsic worth than you, I or most anyone else and that we are merely tools to be used by him; pretty much that the universe was designed around him and his fellow elites.
Is Transponder in danger of being shunned if he dares to agree with anything I say, or what? Aren't you the person who just started an entire thread about the need for kinder, gentler, more respectful dialogue? Did the experiment go poof that quickly?
Seriously, take a break. Troglodyte74 is not worth becoming this upset over.
I don't know. I rather thought he was a Theist of some kind. In any case, he is what he is, and arguments are not theist or atheist - they are valid or not.
Which means he is one of yours.
Another plant. It sounds like you know who he is and what he is and as before you totally condone the.method and are complicit.
Got it.
It's about what you said earlier in another thread about the product being peddled, and how it is being peddled go hand in hand. Along the lines of the product defining the salesman and a crook not being associated with a decent product remember?
You went to bat for atheist fake Eus and this looks and feels like it might be the same.
You know what it's like? It's like those fake hate crimes. You're condoning and participating in exactly the same way and you see nothing wrong with it.
Do you see yet why the product you are peddling is seen as tainted?
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 06-25-2017 at 06:43 PM..
Which means he is one of yours.
Another plant. You know exactly who he is and what he is and as before you totally condone the.methodd and are complicit.
Got it.
It's about what you said earlier in another thread about the product being peddled, and how it is being peddled go hand in hand. Along the lines of the product defining the salesman and a crook not being associated with a decent product remember?
For the record, Tzaphkiel, you are rather too-obviously ignoring the multiple times that I have called you out on your blatant misrepresentations regarding me. At the risk of sounding like you, I am actually beginning to question what your game is and whether you are operating in good faith.
Troglodyte74 is "one of Transponder's"? I am "another plant" of Transponder's? Transponder is "complicit" in my "method"? What does any of that even mean? Is there some alternate universe where it makes sense? Has poor old Troglodyte74 somehow become a plaything in some lover's spat?
For the record, Tzaphkiel, you are rather too-obviously ignoring the multiple times that I have called you out on your blatant misrepresentations regarding me. At the risk of sounding like you, I am actually beginning to question what your game is and whether you are operating in good faith.
Troglodyte74 is "one of Transponder's"? I am "another plant" of Transponder's? Transponder is "complicit" in my "method"? What does any of that even mean? Is there some alternate universe where it makes sense? Has poor old Troglodyte74 somehow become a plaything in some lover's spat?
It means an atheist was posting for a long time pretending to be a bible believer atheist fake Eus and trans knew all about it and participated all along and sees nothing wrong with it. Your posts claiming to be a "mainstream Christian" don't ring true to a lot of people so a lot of people are noticing and saying here we go again.
What other two screen names have you posted under?
A person's credibility comes into question based on their posts. You can say whatever you want online. And in turn, people can usually over time see the authenticity and motivation of the mind behind the posts.
Trog is just a minor blip and this last post is funny actually. I could see you writing kind of a dark gossip column and that third person self reference brings to mind Gollum who was both creepy and riveting. So net effect trog has had on me personally is small. You've come out and admitted rhat you post to goad and have thus rendered the substance and value of your posts null and void for me.
The trans thing has hit me harder and I am taking it harder because i have a longer history of posting with him and it feels like I really can't trust him anymore. Disagreeing is not a problem but condoning and partipcipating in that scale of deception is like those fake hate crimes. I have totally lost respect for someone I previously had respect for. It does not feel good and yes I need to take a break.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 06-25-2017 at 06:40 PM..
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