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Good post. Though we are all aware that posters tend to plunge in without even reading the FAQ and ToS, never mind spend a month following the threads. So we have to cut them a lot of slack, and then when they have got themselves tied into logical knots, put a toe on the loose end and PULL IT TIGHT...
And while your point about the well-poisoning epithet "Rabid" is well taken, we should bear in mind that the "quest" is proposed as being in one direction only and in fact we propose a general omni -directional search and questing and we can have some considerable expectation that the search will lead away from Christianity rather than towards it, and as far as sortagod -Theism or "agnosticism" as it is miscalled, if not all the way to baby -eating Atheism.
Unless of course they cut the search short using one of the many pretext ploys
"Agree to differ"
"no use talking to you"
"You are closed -minded"
"I'm not here to educate you"
"there are books and videos you can access"
"You'll find out one day"
"I used to be a denialist like you, until..."
"You think you are so smart"
"I don't have any valid arguments"
no, not that one.
"Millions smarter than you have believed..."
"Einstein believed in God"
"Anthony Flew converted"
"Stalin, Pol Pot, Hitl...Kim Il Sung." (1)
"You just want to sin." (2)
"Where do you get your morals from."
"The Bible has been translated into more languages than any other.."
At which point, you are free to close the thread.
(1) they won't know it's Kim Jung Il now.
(2) and of course -how could I forget? The depleted uranium silver bullet in the theiopologist belt....
"How if you believe in nothing can you equate the lack of goodness with existence?" (or something equally wordsaladine).
"I can't understand what you are asking."
"So you can't answer my question! I win...goodbye..."
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 06-24-2017 at 06:31 AM..
Why did you say "the large majority of atheists would deny the existence of any sort of spiritual realm?" Based on the posts in the A&A forum, I'd guess that many of them are ambivalent about a spiritual realm, but a number of then acknowledge the possibility of a spiritual existence (some sort of afterlife).
As I have often said, some time spent reading the threads in the A&A forum about how the participants left religion and found their way to Atheism. Among the ones that post in our forum, many of them have had a gut-wrenching experience working their minds away from religion. They have definitely wrestled with the "big question."
I would have chosen a different adjective than rabid. How would you feel if you were referred to as a "rabid Christian?"
that's what I have been saying since day one.
categories. You just listed categories. many things have categories
Gut wrenching experience. yup, they have had something happen to them. That adverse event in their lives can warp the world view. As seen in Adult children of abuse and the struggles they face. although I feel very bad, my feeling does not decide the most logical solutions all the time.
rabid christian = rabid atheists. they have similar personality traits and thus can be classified as the same type of person. I have seen rabid football fans. I love your term of "fandom"
we have rabid fans in atheism, theists, liberal, and conservatives. My neighbor is a rabid yard tending fellow.
Good post. Though we are all aware that posters tend to plunge in without even reading the FAQ and ToS, never mind spend a month following the threads. So we have to cut them a lot of slack, and then when they have got themselves tied into logical knots, put a toe on the loose end and PULL IT TIGHT...
And while your point about the well-poisoning epithet "Rabid" is well taken, we should bear in mind that the "quest" is proposed as being in one direction only and in fact we propose a general omni -directional search and questing and we can have some considerable expectation that the search will lead away from Christianity rather than towards it, and as far as sortagod -Theism or "agnosticism" as it is miscalled, if not all the way to baby -eating Atheism.
Unless of course they cut the search short using one of the many pretext ploys
*** nipped for space*** See whole post if I cherry picked. I didn't mean too.
At which point, you are free to close the thread.
(1) they won't know it's Kim Jung Il now.
(2) and of course -how could I forget? The depleted uranium silver bullet in the theiopologist belt....
"How if you believe in nothing can you equate the lack of goodness with existence?" (or something equally wordsaladine).
"I can't understand what you are asking." "So you can't answer my question! I win...goodbye..."
yes, that man can really nail it. He just described sects. and the only real problem I have with some atheist priests teaching their sect is that, like all priest, they answer to a belief statement. the anti's do it and the not so anti's do it too.
your last one I would change to "you refused to answer the question." I win." "of course the ploy of 'I did and you don't like it." is often used to counter. "Yeah, your answer is wrong or left blank." or some people through in 'goddunit.
yes, that man can really nail it. He just described sects. and the only real problem I have with some atheist priests teaching their sect is that, like all priest, they answer to a belief statement. the anti's do it and the not so anti's do it too.
your last one I would change to "you refused to answer the question." I win." "of course the ploy of 'I did and you don't like it." is often used to counter. "Yeah, your answer is wrong or left blank." or some people through in 'goddunit.
I don't mind the snip at all. It saves me hitting you with a writ for breach of copyright
Yeah - it can get into a "did" - "didn't" exchange which still allows the theist to get away with it. I won't address the rest as seeing my lists of pretexts to shut down an argument that isn't going the way wanted as 'categories' as though they represented a lot of theist denominations (they didn't of course) and then using that false idea so you reverse it and use it to beat "Some kinds" of atheist with, is just transparently wrongheaded and shows you are still on your duck -hunt.
I don't mind the snip at all. It saves me hitting you with a writ for breach of copyright
Yeah - it can get into a "did" - "didn't" exchange which still allows the theist to get away with it. I won't address the rest as seeing my lists of pretexts to shut down an argument that isn't going the way wanted as 'categories' as though they represented a lot of theist denominations (they didn't of course) and then using that false idea so you reverse it and use it to beat "Some kinds" of atheist with, is just transparently wrongheaded and shows you are still on your duck -hunt.
yes, I agree with you. actually, everything you said.
can you understand ... if i can turn it around and beat myself with it; I am forced to rethink myself.
The first thread seemed pretty straightforward enough.
But this one was just an incoherent rambling about how fundamentalist Christianity is the only thing that will save you.
Is there even a question?
it also for the readers. We post all strategies a person will face so that when they face it, they can handle it. In the best way they can, for themselves that is.
believers and non believers can coexists very easily if they have truth, justice, and liberty for all people as the base axom. people that have belief statements about god (no god or my god) as their base axom cannot coexist in a rational fashion. The reasons are simple, and empirical.
Fundamentalist-think and millimentalist-think are the ones that can't coexists. My problem is that us middle of the roaders let these people decide how things should be.
it also for the readers. We post all strategies a person will face so that when they face it, they can handle it. In the best way they can, for themselves that is.
believers and non believers can coexists very easily if they have truth, justice, and liberty for all people as the base axom. people that have belief statements about god (no god or my god) as their base axom cannot coexist in a rational fashion. The reasons are simple, and empirical.
Fundamentalist-think and millimentalist-think are the ones that can't coexists. My problem is that us middle of the roaders let these people decide how things should be.
I have more problems with the religious fundamentalists than extreme atheists. But the fact that I am on an internet forum debating with them says that I am just as strong in promoting my opinion as anyone else. So we are all probably equally guilty
I'm not sure that I would agree with the idea that, what is essentially sitting at a bar or pub and having a lively debate, in a virtual setting, is equivalent to letting people "decide how things should be."
yes, I agree with you. actually, everything you said.
can you understand ... if i can turn it around and beat myself with it; I am forced to rethink myself.
My dear chap -one of the things I most pride myself on is my ability to admit I got it all wrong and rethink it.
The ability to revise and reassess is a strength and the stubborn refusal to admit ever being wrong is not strength of character as is so often mistakenly thought, but a fatal weakness.
"Stand up for your right to be wishy -washy!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle
it also for the readers. We post all strategies a person will face so that when they face it, they can handle it. In the best way they can, for themselves that is.
believers and non believers can coexists very easily if they have truth, justice, and liberty for all people as the base axom. people that have belief statements about god (no god or my god) as their base axom cannot coexist in a rational fashion. The reasons are simple, and empirical.
Fundamentalist-think and millimentalist-think are the ones that can't coexists. My problem is that us middle of the roaders let these people decide how things should be.
Quite, I get your thought here. Those who will not listen or compromise - on both sides - may make for a good debate but are not a lot of help in resolving it. I think where we missed each other before is where we are right to rely on fact (if science can show what that is) as what we should reach agreement on - not compromise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules
I have more problems with the religious fundamentalists than extreme atheists. But the fact that I am on an internet forum debating with them says that I am just as strong in promoting my opinion as anyone else. So we are all probably equally guilty
I'm not sure that I would agree with the idea that, what is essentially sitting at a bar or pub and having a lively debate, in a virtual setting, is equivalent to letting people "decide how things should be."
Just chatting is all that it may be. But I have an idea that things are changing. Not only new ideas but new ideas about the new ideas. Gldnrule may be right and it might change nothing and be futile in the end, but we have to try anyway, and just Chatting to my 6,000 hits per day (not all of them mine) is the only way I have of trying to help it all along.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 06-24-2017 at 10:03 AM..
I have more problems with the religious fundamentalists than extreme atheists. But the fact that I am on an internet forum debating with them says that I am just as strong in promoting my opinion as anyone else. So we are all probably equally guilty
I'm not sure that I would agree with the idea that, what is essentially sitting at a bar or pub and having a lively debate, in a virtual setting, is equivalent to letting people "decide how things should be."
I don't see religion as the biggest threat to freedom in the states. there is a far more hideous threat than religion. Its people that do not understand that "hypocrite" is a necessity and "absolutes" hurt people.
mill/fundy -think is the problem. what they believe in is secondary because we, in the middle, all have good intentions. These "boob-stick-ends" just can't put a limit on themselves. mili-fundy-think will use any means possible to secure their world view. They will hurt anybody to self justify their warped reality.
They are a problem because they have had a gut wrenching experience. This event warps a world view.
forums aren't the problem in discussing and talk-abouts. Out in the real where they are making stupid rules that remove common sense is the real problem with milli-fund-mentalist-think.
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and then when they have got themselves tied into logical knots, put a toe on the loose end and PULL IT TIGHT...
is well taken, we should bear in mind that the "quest" is proposed as being in one direction only 
and in fact we propose a general omni -directional search and questing and we can have some considerable expectation that the search will lead away from Christianity rather than towards it, and as far as sortagod -Theism or "agnosticism" as it is miscalled, if not all the way to baby -eating Atheism. 
It saves me hitting you with a writ for breach of copyright 
