Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
That's because that is exactly what your man-god was saying...that if ANYONE wanted to be 'perfect' they should sell there possessions and give the money to the poor. If you are going to claim that he only meant that for the specific person he was addressing at the time then you might as well go and kick a hornet's nest because you are not going to be able to argue anything other than that all instruction, teaching and advice given by your man-god only applies to the specific person that he was speaking to at the time.
So also with the rest of the Bible. You can no longer clam that the Bible prohibits us from indulging in homosexual acts because, what you would claim to be the prohibition of homosexual acts, can only be found in the OT - and as the OT only applies to the Hebrews, it is only prohibiting homosexuality amongst them. We are exempt...because any instruction in the Bible only applies to the people being addressed...right?
Of course it wont work with you - or any other Christian for that matter. It won't work because it is something that you just don't want to do. When it comes to your wallet, you seem to think that Jesus is talking out of his arse!
...and yet I have studied it. The Qur'an too and many of the Vedas, the Elder Edda, the Epic of Gilgamesh, the Enuma Elish, Hesiod's Theogony...and a quite a few more that I won't bore you with. How about you? What have you read other than the Bible?
I am going to step out on a limb here and suggest you have only read parts of the Bible but have not seriously studied it. If you did study it, you did not understand it. Non-Christians can't understand the Bible(I Cor 2:14).
I have never read any of the books you mentioned. If I am to understand the Bible better, I need to focus on it.
As far as bring perfect Heb 10:10 says Jesus' sacrifice sanctified me and Heb 10:14 says that perfected me. I am not morally perfect but I am spiritually perfect because of Christ.
We should always care and denounce bigoted remarks.
Quote:
All that matters is your evidence. I don't even mind that you post irrelevant and toxic stuff like this rather than engage in any valid argument, because you are doing your beliefs more harm and making atheism look better than any efforts of mine.
It is evolution that has not evidence. Commenting on what YOU said is not irrelevant and you qualified to know if my posts do my beliefs any harm at all. What I post will all be rejected by folks like you, but accepted by conservative Christians.
Quote:
This is not only irrelevant, well poisoning and biased, but too off - topic. It does nothing to produce proof of Gospel - Jesus.
What I Post is neither irrelevant, well poisoning or biased. What I post about science is not meant to produce proof of the gospels. The gospels are not about science.
Quote:
But so you don't think I'm wriggling. I can quote Opium of the people along with the best of them. I can also say Stalin was as bad a criminal dictator as any, and I have no more time for him or Communism than Dawkins has. I cheered when the soviet flag and Berlin wall came down.
You are wonderful and if anyone doesn't believe me, they can just ask you.
Quote:
I'll leave it there but have to mention that I am aware of the latest 'atheists are fundies' ploy. To which I say, just like the 'atheism is a religion' gimmick, even if that was true, it is supported by the evidence. The religious side - Fundy or not - is not supported by the evidence.
What is the evidence that supports the atheists religion. Unless you have some evidence that supports the origin of life, matter and energy, the heavens are declaring the glory of God.
You shouldn't use words that you don't understand---fundy.
You might pick up the point of his pointing the finger at the wealthy and ignoring Luke 6.41/ Matth 7.3.
I didn't say anything against the wealthy. In fact I said money was not a problem, it is the love o money that causes problems.
In post 325 I did not say how I handle money. I don't need you to tell me how secularists handle money. I know from being one for 45 years and knowing from personal observation. When you learn to read get back to me.
Salvation is only a small part of the gospel. The Bible does not demand we support the needy. It makes is a request from God. It does not require us to give all of our money away. I don't lack anything. I have been blessed with EVERY spiritual blessing.
When you have studied the Bible enough to comment without embellishing your remarks, get back to me.
Mt 5:42 - How do you know I don't do that?
Mt 6:19 - I give more than what the Bible says we should give. God never condemns the wealth man can accumulate as long as he got it honestly and is willing to use some of it to help those in need.
Mt 25:31-46 - How do you know I am not doing those things?
Mt 6:25-34 - I am not anxious or worried about tomorrow. We are not guaranteed tomorrow.
Making our salvation and or our dedication to God dependent on giving all of our money away is legalism.
You are judging me out of your ignorance. Maybe it is you who need to revisit Mt 7:3 and Lk 6:41. While you are in Matthew 7, start with verses 1 and 2.
your post 325 refutes you, your evasions, goalpost shifting, red -herring -trailing, denial and of course ...good ol' Biblical cherry -picking, which is what the argument was about in the first place.
"There is another way. Jesus done person to do that, not every Christian.
If I gave all of my money away, I would not be able to help others. Also others would have to help me. Why should I get help when I am perfectly capable of helping myself? God never condemns wealth is gotten honestly. He condemns the love of money and how it is obtained.
Some of the OT characters ever very wealthy: Abraham and Solomon etc."
This and your dependent posts argue the secularist point of view. Don't be a burden on others; support yourself. Make this life a good one. Help your fellow man man, sure, but don't be silly about it. All perfect secularist sense. You like all the religious (other than the fanatics) live just as the secluar world does, and not as the Gospel Jesus says.
Matthew 5.46 on. spells it out. If that's how you live, what is that getting you? Even the atheists do that (though of course the religious side tries to save their case by lying about us)- you have to do more.
You may tell yourself comfortable lies such 'Just calling myself a Christian and not doing anything really bad..not so I have to repent about it, anyway....(1) is enough I don't have to do more than a token handout to charity' .
Even the heathen can do that. You have to do more, and Jesus tells you what. Being a good person gets you a lot of the way, but you have to be "Perfect, even as your heavenly father is perfect". (Mat. 5.48) and do as Jesus said, as an addition to the stuff he slams the over rich for AND Mathew warns you against pointing the finger when you are falling short of what Jesus says is necessary to get into heaven.
And that's without the evasion of pointing to others to excuse your own sticking your fingers in your ears while jesus is shouting at you. "Give all you have to the poor and follow me".
No, no. You know better than jesus what you need to do. Just live like an atheist but call yourself a Christian. Why do you call him "Lord, Lord, but never do what I say?" (Luke 6.46)?
When you can remember what your own Bible said, when you even remember what you said yourself, get back to me.
Please You are doing atheism a power of good.
(1) I just Liove Flashman's prayer to the Jesus he only believes in when he's trapped in a foxhole "Kind God, please forgive me all the sins I've committed, and a few more I'll certainly ommit if I ever get out of this.."
We should always care and denounce bigoted remarks.
It is evolution that has not evidence. Commenting on what YOU said is not irrelevant and you qualified to know if my posts do my beliefs any harm at all. What I post will all be rejected by folks like you, but accepted by conservative Christians.
What I Post is neither irrelevant, well poisoning or biased. What I post about science is not meant to produce proof of the gospels. The gospels are not about science.
You are wonderful and if anyone doesn't believe me, they can just ask you.
What is the evidence that supports the atheists religion. Unless you have some evidence that supports the origin of life, matter and energy, the heavens are declaring the glory of God.
You shouldn't use words that you don't understand---fundy.
This diatribe and farrago of evasion "irrelevant, well poisoning or biased" it is all those and more - field the good old Ad Hom. which I don't mind when it is trying to deflate how I must be looking to you.
But the last para. is really useful as it contains the Gldnruleish fallacy of denying the value of negative evidence, which is just the other side of burden of proof. All you need to do is examine the origin of life. matter, energy and the heavens for the spoor and fewmets of a designer and if there is none (and it was decided by science a Law that there wasn't at Dover that there wasn't) ANDif we don't know one way or the other, the proof that the believers have to produce - not disproof by the unbelievers - is deemed not produced.
Disbelief pending proof is the logical and indeed science based belief position.
As I say I don't case that you will reject that even if you comprehend it. But ..I don't care. That is the science and logic position and if you reject it, you have abandoned science and logic and can never credibly cite it again. You can only cite Faith.
I don't care even if it is. All that matters is your evidence. I don't even mind that you post irrelevant and toxic stuff like this rather than engage in any valid argument, because you are doing your beliefs more harm and making atheism look better than any efforts of mine.
This is not only irrelevant, well poisoning and biased, but too off - topic. It does nothing to produce proof of Gospel - Jesus.
But so you don't think I'm wriggling. I can quote Opium of the people along with the best of them. I can also say Stalin was as bad a criminal dictator as any, and I have no more time for him or Communism than Dawkins has. I cheered when the soviet flag and Berlin wall came down.
I'll leave it there but have to mention that I am aware of the latest 'atheists are fundies' ploy. To which I say, just like the 'atheism is a religion' gimmick, even if that was true, it is supported by the evidence. The religious side - Fundy or not - is not supported by the evidence.
Too soon etc!
Quote:
Originally Posted by omega2xx
I am going to step out on a limb here and suggest you have only read parts of the Bible but have not seriously studied it. If you did study it, you did not understand it. Non-Christians can't understand the Bible(I Cor 2:14).
Ah right. Would that be anything like evolution deniers cannot possibly understand evolution?
Quote:
I have never read any of the books you mentioned.
...and it shows.
Quote:
As far as bring perfect Heb 10:10 says Jesus' sacrifice sanctified me and Heb 10:14 says that perfected me. I am not morally perfect but I am spiritually perfect because of Christ.
Wriggle all you like chap but your man good said it and you just ain't doing it are you?
Quote:
The OT is as valid in Christianity as the NT is.
Great! so how many of the 613 Mitzvah Laws do you actually follow?
Quote:
Originally Posted by omega2xx
You are not qualified to make the final determination on what is ignorant and superstition.
Yes I am. When people say (as you did) that evolution has no evidence, I can very easily determine that you are wilfully ignorance.
I think everyone here is missing my point. Religion, evaluation or atheism are not the problems with this world. It is the people that take any one of those field to the extreme that are the ones who are the problem.
How can you tell if you are in the extreme? If you want to tear down one of the other fields instead of trying to live in a peaceful fashion with one another, and I would think anyone who cares for others would be able to understand that.
This diatribe and farrago of evasion "irrelevant, well poisoning or biased" it is all those and more - field the good old Ad Hom. which I don't mind when it is trying to deflate how I must be looking to you.
But the last para. is really useful as it contains the Gldnruleish fallacy of denying the value of negative evidence, which is just the other side of burden of proof. All you need to do is examine the origin of life. matter, energy and the heavens for the spoor and fewmets of a designer and if there is none (and it was decided by science a Law that there wasn't at Dover that there wasn't) ANDif we don't know one way or the other, the proof that the believers have to produce - not disproof by the unbelievers - is deemed not produced.
Disbelief pending proof is the logical and indeed science based belief position.
As I say I don't case that you will reject that even if you comprehend it. But ..I don't care. That is the science and logic position and if you reject it, you have abandoned science and logic and can never credibly cite it again. You can only cite Faith.
And I luv it here more than ever.
If you really understood science you would know that it actually disproves the TOE. You don't even understand basic genetics and evidently you believe nothing can be the source of something. That is about as foolish as one can be.
To believe life originated from lifeless elements and all living things, plants and animals originated from a single source, which no one knows what it was, takes much more faith than I have.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
...good ol' Biblical cherry -picking, which is what the argument was about in the first place.
You are doing atheism a power of good.
