Jewish Professor Say Jesus & Moses Were Muslims! (genesis, Revelations, prophet)

[BaptistFundie]

Originally Posted by truth_teller

now is year 2017 and the final messenger from Allah Mahammad was born in 570 and became a prophet in 610 and died in 632
and that is not 800 years ago.

The Jews and Christians were WAY after Abraham

O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)!
Why do you dispute about Ibrahim (Abraham),
while the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel) were not revealed till after him?
Have you then no sense? The holy Quran

all the messengers are from Allah
the source of Islam and Jews and Christianity is Allah
and the main message for all of them it believe in Allah the only god and to worship him alone and obey him ,
in other word to submit to him and that is Islam and in another word all the religion of Allah is Islam.

Say (O Muslims),
"We believe in Allah
and that which has been sent down to us
and that which has been sent down to Ibrahim (Abraham), Isma'il (Ishmael), Ishaq (Isaac), Ya'qub (Jacob), and to Al-Asbat [the offspring of the twelve sons of Ya'qub (Jacob)],
and that which has been given to Musa (Moses) and 'ÃŽsa (Jesus),
and that which has been given to the Prophets from their Lord.
We make no distinction between any of them,
and to Him we have submitted (in Islam)."The holy Quran

You think Allah was the source of Christianity? You must think he's schizophrenic, then. Because Christianity and Islam teach 2 very different things. Christianity's God is much holier than Allah. He would never forgive sin without a blood sacrifice. Allah merely wants your good to outweigh your bad.

[ben Shunamit]

Jesus and Moses were Muslims? Nonsense. Jesus was a Mexican, and you can see the evidence to this day. OTOH, how many Mexicans do you find named Moses? More likely Moish was a Yid.

[kevxu]

Originally Posted by Mr5150

Fake facts have become rather popular lately

This is such an old bone in discussions about religion I am surprised that you would even bother to make the observation. My faith is your fake, and vice versa.

Unless, of course, you are anxious to press the U.S. political hot button in this thread for some reason.

[karen_in_nh_2012]

OP, really wish you had made a thread title that did NOT completely misrepresent what the professor is saying. (You wrote in post #12 that you simply copied the title of the video, but that video title misrepresents what the professor is saying ... so if you watched the video, why did you re-use a misleading title? )

The professor, in this clip at least, is NOT saying that Jesus and Moses were Muslims. Just listen to the first few seconds of the video, where he is saying, in a nutshell, "This is how MUSLIMS see the world ..." The rest of what he says in this video is about what he sees as the MUSLIM worldview -- not his own.

Originally Posted by rosends

He isn't actually espousing this position. He is describing the Islamization of history, explaining what a Muslim would say. He is clear saying that this is how followers of Islam see the world -- what he says is about:

"The attitude of Islam to history...that all history is, in fact an Islamic history."

So again, this is not his opinion. He is telling of a Muslim attitude.

EXACTLY.

Originally Posted by functionofx

Nonsense like this is why so many do not consider many universities as educational centers. This man is very misinformed, and isn't being stopped by his university. It is very unfortunate.

Originally Posted by BaptistFundie

Unfortunately, having a degree, or the title "Professor" really does not mean one has a clue.

You clearly did not listen to even the first few seconds of the video, nor did you read rosends' post, which is only the 2nd one in this thread. So you are criticizing the professor because you THINK -- from the thread title -- that you know what he said. The problem is, he DIDN'T say it.

[truth_teller]

Originally Posted by BaptistFundie

You think Allah was the source of Christianity? .

not only I think but I believe without any doubt that the source Christianity and Judaism and Islam is Allah

and that is logically because there is only one god and if prefer to name the god as God it is OK to say the source Christianity and Judaism and Islam is the same god and there are no gods except him.
.

Christianity and Islam teach 2 very different things. .

that because the source of Christianity has no confirmed chain of transmission
but Islam has confirmed chain of transmission therefore Islam is correct and Christianity is distorted and has many contradictions
.

He would never forgive sin without a blood sacrifice..

it is not fair and not logic to punish some one on the sin of others
and regarding Adam and Eve they have committed a sin and they have repent and ask Allah the forgiveness

and Allah forgave them but he punished them by exiting them from Paradise and descend them to the earth. and the case is over and the sin is cleared and we are born without any sin and without inheriting sin

Say: "Shall I seek a lord other than Allah, while He is the Lord of all things? No person earns any (sin) except against himself (only), and no bearer of burdens shall bear the burden of another. Then unto your Lord is your return, so He will tell you that wherein you have been differing." Then Holy Quran

.

Allah merely wants your good to outweigh your bad.

and that is done by obeying him and he said to every human and every Jinn obey and follow Mahammad

And I (Allah) created not the jinn and mankind except that they should worship Me (Alone). Then Holy Quran.
****************
If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good). Then Holy Quran.

[TRANSPONDER]

Originally Posted by ukrkoz

It's not a sensationalist thread name. It was simple c/p of the YT video title.
Thing is, if you go to that video, on the R hand pane to it, there is another video now titled about same. Jesus was a Muslim, something like that.
I watched it out of curiosity and now you have a Christian (scholar?) saying exactly the same. Every major Abrahamic religion figure was a Muslim in the light of semantics of this word and word Islam.

This one:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZn75fGpuOA&t=852s

See, my opinion on this is a bit different from religious. I think, it's a new wiff. Especially coming from a Jew. Educated Jew, no matter what. In Israel. And they are rather particular about what they say.
I think it's a new paradigm. Oh, but see, we were ALL Muslims (read - brothers and sisters) believing into same god, etc, then a simply misunderstanding happened and we sort became a little bit alienated...
I think, there is a shift in paradigm. A pointer towards a new direction. Maybe a way out of potential annihilation. No one wants another Holocaust. So it may be an introduction of a path out of it. It will be interesting to watch how this develops. Seeds are seeded.

I gave if twenty seconds until I could se it was Muslim propaganda. I didn't appreciate the attempt to laugh off the tradition of violence that that has Characterized Islam from the start. It is no joke and hasn't been since the first Palestinian airline hi -jack.

While there is a germ of truth is the idea it's all one god and one Submission. that does not mean the Islam trumps the others.

p.s South Africa based and supposedly deals with a 'wide range of popular subjects' but is seems to specialize is Islamic propaganda and parading a string of converts.

Well, if we can have the atheist experience, I suppose they can have that and they are welcome.

Originally Posted by karen_in_nh_2012

OP, really wish you had made a thread title that did NOT completely misrepresent what the professor is saying. (You wrote in post #12 that you simply copied the title of the video, but that video title misrepresents what the professor is saying ... so if you watched the video, why did you re-use a misleading title? )

The professor, in this clip at least, is NOT saying that Jesus and Moses were Muslims. Just listen to the first few seconds of the video, where he is saying, in a nutshell, "This is how MUSLIMS see the world ..." The rest of what he says in this video is about what he sees as the MUSLIM worldview -- not his own.



EXACTLY.

You clearly did not listen to even the first few seconds of the video, nor did you read rosends' post, which is only the 2nd one in this thread. So you are criticizing the professor because you THINK -- from the thread title -- that you know what he said. The problem is, he DIDN'T say it.

The Baptist Fundies do not look, listen or learn any more than the Muslim ones.

Originally Posted by Rbbi1

Has it occurred to you yet that Mohammed, the founder of Islam lived only 800 years ago, WAY after Abraham? Peace

Of course! It just requires the fallacy of the new rather than fallacy of antiquity.

Btw. I was going to reply to trash teller, but I really couldn't face the blank -faced Dogma reciting...s

[ukrkoz]

See, it is really simple folks.
1. Muslims start taking over.
2. Non Muslim population starts fearing
3. Trend develops to present this as "threat" to say Judaism or Christianity
4. As a protective response, a Jewish and A Christian scholars present opinion that we are all Muslims based on semantics.
5. Overtone Window is opened.
6. Idea is being seeded and picked up by other minds as a great justification
7. so next time bearded fellas with AK47s, knock on the door and say Allahu Akbar, you feel, as a Muslim, very comfortable to respond same way. As yes, anyone here wil confirm - god is great. Life saved.

[Tired of the Nonsense]

Originally Posted by ukrkoz

Actually, my OP consisted from video link AND second post asking to discuss this by representatives of the involved religions, but I'm easy. It's interesting topic, worth reposting.
So here I am with discussion part of it.
According to this professor, claim is that Jesus, Solomon and other prominent Abrahamic religions characters were Muslim.
This is not aligned with the official "date" of Islam revelation, circa mid 7th century CE.
Is there any merit to this claim? Or, it is simply misunderstood and means something else.
Will be most educational to have civil and intelligent discussion of this topic by Muslims, Christians and Judaism followers ( can't say Judaists, right?)
Thank you.
Civil and intelligent, please.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1pptNvufNY

It is my understanding, that this based on simple play of words. Islam is surrender, Muslim is one who surrenders to god. In that etymology, ANYONE who surrenders to god is a Muslim. Moses included, as example.

Wikipedia
In the racialist classifications of Carleton S. Coon, the Semitic peoples were considered to be members of the Caucasian race, not dissimilar in appearance to the neighbouring Indo-European, Northwest Caucasian, Berber and Kartvelian-speaking peoples of the region.[10] As language studies are interwoven with cultural studies, the term also came to describe the religions (ancient Semitic and Abrahamic) and Semitic-speaking ethnicities as well as the history of these varied cultures as associated by close geographic and linguistic distribution.

Some recent genetic studies have found (by analysis of the DNA of Semitic-speaking peoples) that they have some common ancestry. Although no significant common mitochondrial results have been found, Y-chromosomal links between modern Semitic-speaking peoples of the Middle East like Arabs, Hebrews, Mandaeans, Samaritans, and Assyrians have shown links, despite differences contributed from other groups (see Y-chromosomal Aaron).

A DNA study of Jews and Palestinian Arabs (including Bedouins) found that these were more closely related to each other than to people of the Arabian Peninsula, Ethiopian Semitic-speaking people (Amharas, Tigrayans, Harari and Tigre people), and the Arabic speakers of North Africa.

Genetic studies indicate that modern Jews (Ashkenazi, Sephardic and Mizrahi specifically), Levantine Arabs, Assyrians, Samaritans, Maronites, Druze, Mandaeans, and Mhallami, all have an ancient indigenous common Near Eastern heritage which can be genetically mapped back to the ancient Fertile Crescent, but often also display genetic profiles distinct from one another, indicating the different histories of these peoples. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_people

Jews and Arabs share a common origin.

[TRANSPONDER]

I wish I could dismiss the dire warning of Islamic take-over creep, but I can't, because
(a) it has happened before - in Java

(b) religions are designed to suck in outsiders and convert them while doing its' utmost to maintain a solid barrier to any of them getting out. The Muslim religion is more totally geared to doing this than any other I can think of.

Add to that the tradition of coercion, violence and terror as a first option, ever since the tolerant and learned Islam of Medieval Baghdad was quashed by resurgent intolerant fundamentalism which, while I would love to believe the protestation of disapproval from the Real Muslims, is ready to rear its' black flagged head given half a chance, as we saw just recently.

I'm not sure whether a military solution is the answer - not the final answer anyway, no more than stopping Creationism in the courts is the final answer.

It needs the education people out of of the lies they are being told, giving the impetus to walk away and telling the religious authorities "You have no power over me. You canot use my family for your purposes. You will no longer tell fairy tales to my children, and you will not threaten me with afterlife punishment."

Until the ones who are being arrested, tried and locked up, if not given public floggings, are the ones doing it to dissenters now, there can be no real answer to the threat to humanity that the Islamic religion represents.

[Khalif]

Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel

Judaism recognizes there are many paths to God.

That is not correct. Judaism recognizes obeying God (keeping the commandments) is the only way to God. The Torah makes it clear (Exodus 15:26, Deuteronomy 6:2, 13:4).

Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel

Judaism is only the path for a Jew.

Why if he recognizes many paths to God? Why pick only the one of them?

Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel

It does not seek converts, nor does it proselytize. Rather it discourages converts.

It is so for a specific reason; it is to stop diluting the genealogy.

Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel

So as a Jew he recognizes there are many paths to God.

Which other paths does a Jew recognize and, in the Torah, what is this belief based on?

Does a Jew recognize Christianity and Islam (i.e. whatever Jesus and Muhammad preached as revelations from God)?

Where is "Judaism" mentioned in the Torah?

Where is "Christianity" mentioned by Jesus?

In other words, what was religion of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob (Israel), Joseph and Moses and Jesus called?

The names "Judaism" and "Christianity" are a later developments. None of these figures called their religion as such during their lifetime. Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian. He never called his religion "Judaism".

The professor is making an important point. He is highlighting that there is only one religion ordained by God and it is not Muhammadanism, Judaism or Christianity but simply "obeying God" ("keeping the commandments"). Such action is called "islam" in Arabic. And whoever acts in this way is "muslim" in Arabic (there are no capital letters in Arabic).

Basically, the Qur'an tries to bring ALL believers on one platform as children of Adam. This is to eliminate division on racial and genealogy grounds. Anyone can be "muslim" if s/he believes and obeys God. Such action is not inheritance of only Arabs, Hebrews, Pakistanis, Egyptians, blacks or whites but of anyone can inherit it. No single genealogy or race has ownership of it. It is open to ALL.