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OK, then tell us why those behaviors are a problem. For these specific behaviors, why are they red flags:
"there is only one way to God"
"this is best for you"
"this is best for everyone"
"no one else has the truth, they are wrong, corrupt, in error, off the rails"
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift
Please let me: "one way" is a problem if the person promoting that way is talking about a specific set of beliefs that only his group teaches, when the "way" is something that is available to everyone in ANY faith tradition it is not a problem at all
"Best" again is a matter of whether a specific practice or set of practices is being promoted, especially if it is only taught in the group of the promoter. When it is talking about a relationship in love with God and man, what COULD be better?
If someone is claiming that no one else has the truth, that would setiously be a problem suspiciously like a cult. When one claims that the truth may be found in ANY faith tradition and that the various tradition really have no bearing on that truth it is not what you would want to call a cult.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
there it is again
"the Way"
What fascinates me, Tzaphkiel, is that you seem to have ignored my explanation about your concerns and keep repeating this one. Did you miss the explanation and would you like to address it now? Just to be clear that explanation was: "'one way] is a problem if the person promoting that way is talking about a specific set of beliefs that only his group teaches, when the 'way' is something that is available to everyone in ANY faith tradition it is not a problem at all"
Simply because individuals in a container have agency doesn't mean the container itself has agency. To extrapolate that to the container, one would need to presuppose the container as the creator of the individuals.
This epitomizes the "separate things" view of our reality. The problem is that our reality is NOT "separate things." It is all components of "one thing." That knowledge is what eradicated my atheism and is why your composition fallacy fails.
This epitomizes the "separate things" view of our reality. The problem is that our reality is NOT "separate things." It is all components of "one thing." That knowledge is what eradicated my atheism and is why your composition fallacy fails.
You have proof of this unified nature of all things of course. And you are able to show that proof?
Or would this be another one of your unsupported assertions?
This epitomizes the "separate things" view of our reality. The problem is that our reality is NOT "separate things." It is all components of "one thing." That knowledge is what eradicated my atheism and is why your composition fallacy fails.
Much like with a box of ants, the box is part of the ants' reality, but it is not part of the ants. Nor does it have any agency.
You have proof of this unified nature of all things of course. And you are able to show that proof?
Or would this be another one of your unsupported assertions?
You will never accept that my experiences are the source of my certainty so we cannot reconcile our views.
This epitomizes the "separate things" view of our reality. The problem is that our reality is NOT "separate things." It is all components of "one thing." That knowledge is what eradicated my atheism and is why your composition fallacy fails.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amaznjohn
Much like with a box of ants, the box is part of the ants' reality, but it is not part of the ants. Nor does it have any agency.
It seems clear that you are not really trying to understand the perspective I present since you continue to use a "separate things" view. Apparently, you are not even aware of it. It seems so ingrained in your psyche that you are incapable of abstracting yourself from that view of "things."
You will never accept that my experiences are the source of my certainty so we cannot reconcile our views.
What is perplexing is that someone of your supposed intellect would accept such an experience as the source of certainty, when many others claim the same experience and have reached many different conclusions, when these types of experiences can be recreated using mind-altering drugs, when many delusional individuals have these same experiences. Why is your experience so unique that you have dismissed all other possibilities for its source.
What is perplexing is that someone of your supposed intellect would accept such an experience as the source of certainty, when many others claim the same experience and have reached many different conclusions, when these types of experiences can be recreated using mind-altering drugs, when many delusional individuals have these same experiences. Why is your experience so unique that you have dismissed all other possibilities for its source.
I spent over 18 years developing my meditation technique aided by biofeedback. I perfected retaining conscious control while entering altered states. When I succeeded in achieving the deepest state, I retained my conscious control and awareness but was blindsided by what I encountered. Imagine your consciousness encountering a separate consciousness that is NOT separate but is also NOT remotely like yours. It is a multitude but it is just ONE with all that is. I simply cannot verbally convey the experience to anyone who has not had it. There is a "knowingness" and a loving acceptance and joy that is indescribable. I have tried to liken it to a crowd doing the wave at a sporting event, but that does not remotely capture the experience.
What was immediately clear to my conscious mind is that I could not control or alter the experience in the slightest. That meant that it was NOT part of my subconscious or any other aspect of ME. My inability to control my experiences in altered states was the test I used to assure me that I had encountered an actual aspect of reality and not something from my own subconscious as in a lucid dream state. The realization that our entire reality was CONSCIOUS instantly eliminated my atheism. I cannot call our conscious reality anything else BUT God.
You talk of altered states using drugs, but they happen outside of conscious control and cannot be relied upon. The God Helmet experiments revealed that our brain IS sensitive to fields and that it tends to interpret them as a presence. That suggests to me that our brain is wired to be sensitive to the unified field (God's consciousness) that establishes our reality under certain altered brain states. I encountered the consciousness field that establishes our reality by achieving a deep meditative state and was blown away by it. I had to find a way to explain it to my intellect and I have succeeded. I still use my conscious control in altered states to distinguish between experiences from my subconscious and those that are real. I frequently experience "transients" during meditation that I cannot alter or control in any way. They are usually the result of someone thinking and/or emoting very strongly about me and sometimes I can actually identify the source.
I spent over 18 years developing my meditation technique aided by biofeedback. I perfected retaining conscious control while entering altered states. When I succeeded in achieving the deepest state, I retained my conscious control and awareness but was blindsided by what I encountered. Imagine your consciousness encountering a separate consciousness that is NOT separate but is also NOT remotely like yours. It is a multitude but it is just ONE with all that is. I simply cannot verbally convey the experience to anyone who has not had it. There is a "knowingness" and a loving acceptance and joy that is indescribable. I have tried to liken it to a crowd doing the wave at a sporting event, but that does not remotely capture the experience.
What was immediately clear to my conscious mind is that I could not control or alter the experience in the slightest. That meant that it was NOT part of my subconscious or any other aspect of ME. My inability to control my experiences in altered states was the test I used to assure me that I had encountered an actual aspect of reality and not something from my own subconscious as in a lucid dream state. The realization that our entire reality was CONSCIOUS instantly eliminated my atheism. I cannot call our conscious reality anything else BUT God.
You talk of altered states using drugs, but they happen outside of conscious control and cannot be relied upon. The God Helmet experiments revealed that our brain IS sensitive to fields and that it tends to interpret them as a presence. That suggests to me that our brain is wired to be sensitive to the unified field (God's consciousness) that establishes our reality under certain altered brain states. I encountered the consciousness field that establishes our reality by achieving a deep meditative state and was blown away by it. I had to find a way to explain it to my intellect and I have succeeded. I still use my conscious control in altered states to distinguish between experiences from my subconscious and those that are real. I frequently experience "transients" during meditation that I cannot alter or control in any way. They are usually the result of someone thinking and/or emoting very strongly about me and sometimes I can actually identify the source.
Thanks for that. That's all I needed to know.
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