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Old 09-24-2017, 06:06 AM
 
Location: Somerset, UK
8,343 posts, read 271,289 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Wrong! The Abrahamic faith borrowed all this from the Hindu faith. The very fact that Abraham is said to come from the far east region of UR of Chaldea which is closer to India than Israel should tip you off. These religious beliefs migrated west, not east.
I always thought that too after reading Dharmic books.
(Some speculation)
I reckon Abram came into contact with devotees of Ram, who was an established avatar , became a bhakti(devotee) and then tried to convert his own people by creating a religion suitable to the consciousness of that time.
Also, the name Avram could be made up of Av(father in Hebrew) and Ram the name of his Avatar.
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Old 09-24-2017, 08:37 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,450 posts, read 24,044,107 times
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I've been through these conversations about proof that there is God so many times. And it's never proof.

I had a neighbor whose wife had a significant heart; they were both in their 60s at the time. One night her heart went into rapid heart failure due to some cardiac event. The only regional doctor who could save her was in Denver; they lived in Colorado Springs. They helicoptered her to Denver, the surgeon did his work, and she lived. "Yup, God healed her up in that helicopter. So to anyone who doesn't believe in God, that proves he exists." Or it proves that she got a gifted surgeon in Denver.

I had a friend in Thailand who won reasonably big on a lottery ticket...because he had meditated long and hard at the Buddhist temple. To him that proved that Buddha answered prayers...even though Buddhists generally don't attribute the answering of prayers to Buddha...since he's dead and more a "role model" and philosopher and not a god.

I had another friend in India who got a coveted government job in education at the national level...because he had prayed to Shiva (the creator and destroyer god) and Ganesha (the Hindu elephant god who is the "remover of obstacles").

In other words, it's sort of like Baskin-Robbins ice cream with 31 flavors...even if sometimes it's sherbet.
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Old 09-24-2017, 09:23 AM
 
5,004 posts, read 15,327,218 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
Loved your post.
I forget to mention the Atman or Brahma or Brahman...funny how Abraham has
Brahman and a-ham in his name...for those that know about 'a-ham'.
(I don't need to get into that .)

And of course there are unicorns...on another plane....camp out in England a few nights
and you'll know first hand there are fairies and leprechauns, also!
There is a story in the RgVeda that sounds just like the story of Abraham offering his son up as a sacrifice, and it begins with A Braham...

This story, by the way, is older than the Bible or should I say that the Rig Veda was produced first, or at least I think I am right about this.

Abraham and Brahma: Part I by Anonymousfor Prajapati

Last edited by Mattie Jo; 09-24-2017 at 10:07 AM..
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Old 09-24-2017, 09:35 AM
 
5,004 posts, read 15,327,218 times
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Quote:
Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble.

The scientists’ religious feeling takes the form of a rapturous amazement at the harmony of natural law, which reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection.
– Albert Einstein

I really think that some new atheists are so against religion and therefore the concept of God that they willingly say that there is no Creator.

I have heard them now say that it was Gravity that created everything, and I want to say, Then who created gravity," but they say it always was. Which is what the Bible says about God.

Some men of old were much wiser than the new atheists. Still, I do not believe it is necessary to worhip this Creator.
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Old 09-24-2017, 11:36 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,083 posts, read 20,576,462 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattie Jo View Post
– Albert Einstein

I really think that some new atheists are so against religion and therefore the concept of God that they willingly say that there is no Creator.

I have heard them now say that it was Gravity that created everything, and I want to say, Then who created gravity," but they say it always was. Which is what the Bible says about God.

Some men of old were much wiser than the new atheists. Still, I do not believe it is necessary to worhip this Creator.
I don't know how often we are going to have correct this trotting out of Einstein as an Authority figure, whose discoveries in science somehow make him an authority on the existence of God.

But...

Einstein identified himself as a follower of Baruch Spinoza, a 17th-century Dutch-Jewish pantheist philosopher who saw God in every aspect of existence as well as extending beyond what we can perceive in the world. He used logic to deduce his fundamental principles. His view of God was not the conventional, personal Judeo-Christian God. He held that God is indifferent to individuals.
..
Albert Einstein: It is a Lie that I Believe in a Personal God

"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."
Albert Einstein, letter to an atheist (1954), quoted in "Albert Einstein: The Human Side," edited by Helen Dukas & Banesh Hoffman.

....

As to gravity, it is a physical effect that has no mass, particles or even energy. It is a nothing that does something. Why couldn't that always 'be there?'

But a complex intelligence without origins? That makes no sense.
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Old 09-24-2017, 01:04 PM
 
9,951 posts, read 4,920,298 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by auralmack View Post
Let me rephrase, Something caused the earth and universe.
And I see intelligent design. If you cut down those trees and toss around a few nails, something would have to cause a house to exist. No intelligent design and I don't believe a house would ever exist. Man-made or otherwise.
I find the ' cause ' according to Isaiah 40:26 that it was God who supplied His ' power and strength ' ( His abundant dynamic energy ) that caused the Earth and Universe to come into existence. (Psalm 104:30)
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Old 09-24-2017, 01:14 PM
 
9,951 posts, read 4,920,298 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattie Jo View Post
– Albert Einstein
I really think that some new atheists are so against religion and therefore the concept of God that they willingly say that there is no Creator.
I have heard them now say that it was Gravity that created everything, and I want to say, Then who created gravity," but they say it always was. Which is what the Bible says about God.
Some men of old were much wiser than the new atheists. Still, I do not believe it is necessary to worship this Creator.
I can agree, up to a point, that it is Not necessary to worship this (biblical) Creator.
Not necessary if you do Not want the opportunity to live forever, and if you do Not want to live by the Golden Rule.
If you love life and want to live forever then the worship of the God of the Bible is necessary - John 17:3.
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Old 09-24-2017, 03:33 PM
 
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
10,939 posts, read 5,913,191 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
I can agree, up to a point, that it is Not necessary to worship this (biblical) Creator.
Not necessary if you do Not want the opportunity to live forever, and if you do Not want to live by the Golden Rule.
If you love life and want to live forever then the worship of the God of the Bible is necessary - John 17:3.
I have to ask.
Do you know of anyone who worshipped this god and died and is now living forever?
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Old 09-26-2017, 05:31 AM
 
Location: knoxville, Tn.
4,765 posts, read 1,985,565 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
I see no point in this thread.

(1) there can be no presents without a Santa.

(2) Rudolph the red nosed reindeer
Had a very shiny nose.

(3) anyone who doesn't agree with me is stupid.

Bulma has tried this arguments before. So have many others. It didn't work then and it works less now where possible alternative hypotheses to Prime Mover are being mooted.

It doesn't matter anyway. The only real debate is Personal god -claims and Holy Books, organized religion and its' influence on society, whether something should be done to remove it and what.
The truth is it can't be proved or disproved that God created the universe. Your belief is based on the same thing ours is---FAITH ALONE.

However since the process in our universe work perfectly all the time, it is more logical to believe our universe not only had a Creator, He was also an Intelligent Designer.

God saw ALL that He had made, and behold it was very good---Gen 1:31
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Old 09-26-2017, 07:43 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,083 posts, read 20,576,462 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omega2xx View Post
The truth is it can't be proved or disproved that God created the universe. Your belief is based on the same thing ours is---FAITH ALONE.

However since the process in our universe work perfectly all the time, it is more logical to believe our universe not only had a Creator, He was also an Intelligent Designer.

God saw ALL that He had made, and behold it was very good---Gen 1:31
Rubbish. 'We dobn't know' is not a statement of belief and is not faith based. 'God made it' is a faith caim and nothing more than that.

Your goddunnit conclusion is faith -based, not logical, and you already showed that you have no idea what 'logic' really is. The evidence is that stars go nova, animals go extinct. It does not work 'perfectly' and it is not Intelligently designed. If it works, it works, if it doesn't work, it stops working.

And Faith-claims without any sound evidential support are no more than faith -claims whether they come out of the Bible or your own head.
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