unquestionable evidences (salvation, Harry Potter, myths, church)

[omega2xx]

Originally Posted by Shirina

Wow, you'll believe any ridiculous story as long as it bolsters your argument, won't you.

Uh huh ... a guy who "claims" to have been swallowed by a whale. No witnesses. Not a one.

Goggle "man swallowed by a whale" and you will find it actually happened.

You believe one cell is the origin of all life we have today. You believe the leg of a small land animal became the fin of a big sea creature and it nose became a blowhole. You believe that with no evidence. What is more ridiculous what I believe, and it actually happened and what you belieie that is genetically impossible

No explanation as to why a whale, which eats plankton and other very small things, would swallow a full-grown human male. Strange, too, how he wasn't dissolved in the whale's stomach acid.

Don't complain to me. Complain to the one who wrote the account of it happening.

It's a massive 50 gallon drum filled with Kool-Aid, and you're drinking up every last drop.

And you are drinking from a 100 gallon drum that is laced with non-scientific poison.

Oh yeah ... it's pretty coincidental that this guy just "happened" to stay inside of the whale's stomach for precisely the same amount of time as Jonah. *whistles appreciatively* That's a pretty big coincidence!

It is not a coincidence at all. God planned it that way.

And his wife ... damn!

???

“This is truly a miracle! Saint Mary of Jesus has heard our prayers. “I prayed and I prayed and I never lost faith, and the Lord has brought me back my precious Luigi,” told his wife, Penelope Marquez, to local reporters.

Obviously these people are religious zealots -- and I don't really need to state the obvious, do I? Yeah, there's definitely something FISHY going on with this silly story.

What you need to do is prove it is silly. Why should I believe anything you say?

Really? This is what we're reduced to?

Obviously, the scientific impossibilities aren't reason enough for you -- and when magic and miracles are acceptable explanations, it becomes impossible to prove to someone like you that they're wrong or events didn't happen.

So far all you have done is whine about what i believe. Now it is time for you with your great knowlegde to explain how the universe came into beinq and how a single cell was the mommy and daddy of all the life we have today.

Wow, you're still using the "you just don't understand it" argument? STILL??

That is because until you can prove your default position is a better explanation, it is still valid.

[Shirina]

Originally Posted by omega2xx

You are still blaming the wrong persons. He also gave man free will. The could have chose to obey and if they did, the world would still be a paradise.

God didn't give us anything -- evolution did.

God is just a Hebrew tribal god from the Bronze Age that managed to gain too much noteriety due to an over-zealous Roman emperor who just happened to get lucky and win a battle.

That's IT.

Yahweh/Jehovah was never meant to be worshiped by anyone save Hebrews -- which is why you do not see any attempts at conversion anywhere in the Old Testament. There was no proselytizing, no attempts to turn any of the Egyptians to the Hebrew faith, nothing. Zero. Zilch.

And it's why, even today, the Jews do not proselytize or run around the planet wrecking other people's ancient cultures in an attempt to convert the "savages."

As I said, your God was never meant for you -- unless you're Jewish. It wasn't until the messianic doomsday cult led by Christ entered the picture over a thousand years later when Christianity decided it had a right to conquer the world by force (they only snagged most of Europe and Russia though, as well as the western hemisphere, not the world, but they're still trying).

You keep bloviating about how people do not understand Christian theology -- but theology is like debating over whether Mighty Mouse can beat up Superman or attending class to learn the history of Frodo Baggins. When it's all made-up, with only a tenuous connection to the real world, theology can go damn near anywhere. Which, by the way, is why there are some 30,000 different Christian denominations. Gee, ya think?

Here's how I know I wasn't "created" by a supreme being: poop.

Yeah, poop. I'm deadly serious. More people have died from diseases stemming from our own feces than all the casualties (KIA, MIA, and missing) of war combined. Talk about "sick" ... your god always manages to outdo even the worst human mass murderer.

Because ... did God HAVE to design us in such a way as to excrete such a horrifically deadly mass of bacteria? Of course not. But he did -- at least according to your beliefs, anyway. When you combine that with God's omniscience, your god knew damn well what the results would be of his design. He KNEW that our own excrement would cause thousands of years of death, sickness, and suffering. Because, when he was divinely inspiring the Biblical authors, he was too busy ensuring that we always had four tassels on our cloaks instead of, perhaps, warning us of our own biohazards and teaching us how to deal with it in a healthy way. Thus, God not only designed us this way, he then sat back and watched a 100,000 year-long horror show. And all the while, he did NOTHING. (Which is what you would expect from a being that doesn't exist).

I call it "God's Hidden Holocaust" since he probably managed to wipe out more innocent people with his bad design of our bodies than he did when he flooded the world during Noah's era.

And there are plenty of design flaws with our bodies -- like using the same "pipe" that we breathe with to also swallow our food. How many millions have died due to choking deaths, I wonder? And most of them were probably babies and very young children -- the most innocent among us.

Evolution is blameless -- it doesn't have unlimited power and it certainly doesn't know everything. Evolution did not construct our bodies with foreknowledge, intent, or ulterior motives. However, the moment you add an intelligence to the equation, an intelligence with unlimited power and knowledge, EVERYTHING is his fault. And I do mean EVERYTHING.

You can't blame the planet's situation on humanity. We're simply behaving in precisely the way your god designed us to behave. It's just that you can't handle that concept and pretend instead that god had nothing to do with how things turned out. Believers like yourself invent clever little rationalizations -- like "free will" -- to allow god to wriggle off the hook, to lay the blame at humanity's feet.

Remember that if your god didn't want things exactly as they are, they wouldn't BE this way. This is the logical price you pay when your god is omnipotent and omniscient -- unless you can admit that God is actually an evil being who uses threats and violence to coerse people's "free will" to worship him. Or maybe your god is simply insane.

Originally Posted by omega2xx

Goes not require us to worship Him. We chose to do so because of who He is and what He has done for us.

Reeeaally .... is THAT how it works. Well, allow me to quote God:

Commandment #1: Thou shalt have no other gods before ME!

Hmm, I mean, that sounds an aweful lot like a command to not only worship him, but also you are forbidden to worship anyone else besides.

Oh let me guess. I somehow don't understand Christian theology ... right? Because such a simplistic and straightforward commandment requires decades of study at one of America's most prestigeous seminaries, correct?

I find it amusing how something -- like Christianity -- is supposed to be easily understood by the (then) illiterate and uneducated masses and yet suddenly (and mysteriously) it becomes more complex than quantum mechanics when people like us challenge the simple messages of religion.

Originally Posted by omega2xx

When you understand Christian theology, get back o me.

Translation: "I really don't have a rebuttal -- and even if I did, I'm pretending I'm logged into Twitter so none of my responses will be longer than 265 characters."

Originally Posted by omega2xx

I can hardly take your theology seriously when it approves of babies being torn apart in the womb. Does that not seem hypocritical to you? It does to me.

Oh, how cheap, Omega. You DO realize that, right? Cheap, cheap, cheap. This ridiculous attempt at deflection is cheaper than a knick-knack at a garage sale.

Which is why I'm not going to say anything further about it. The old "you're no better" deflection tactic is disingenuous at best, fallacious at worst, and intellectually dishonest in either case.

[303Guy]

Originally Posted by omega2xx

Satan is responsibe for the death of all men. So you tell me.

Is this part of "you have to understand the bible to be able to interpret it"?
Like when it says God killed all the Egyptian first borns it really means Satan killed the first borns? Or does it really mean God blessed all the firstborns?

And the flood? How do you interpret that?

I'm still waiting for the starving African children to be saved. Anytime soon will be good.

Not gonna happen right? You know that to be true.

So you seriously believe a man was swallowed by a whale?

Then saved by God. The same God who can't or won't save the kids?

[TRANSPONDER]

Originally Posted by omega2xx

The is a story reported about a man being swallowed by a whale and being spit out on a beach. So it is possible.

I should like to see your evidence for that claim.

Then prove them wrong or you opinions are are also a matter of faith.

As usual - I don't need to prove anything. I just need to be unconvinced by your claim that Satan is real. The evidence suggests that good and evil are somewhat confused, by Christians as much as any, suggests that they are a human convention rather that the doings of any supernatural beings.

You never will because you do not have the ability to understand Biblical theology.

Biblical theology is not only irrelevant unles you can show that it has any particular relevance, but is particularly unhelpful and adding to ethical confusion.TT- We are not 'miracles'. We are the product of natural processes.

Originally Posted by truth_teller

unquestionable evidences

How did Mahammad Know this


The creator told him
it is not only the atheists that are in dangerous but also those who do not follow Mahammad.
-----------
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The exact number was not known even in 20th century .

The Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) said

A human being has three hundred and sixty joints for each of which he must give alms.
The people asked him: Who is capable of doing this ?
He replied: It may be mucus in the mosque which you bury, and something which you remove from the road;
but if you do not find such, two rak'ahs (prayer) in the forenoon will be sufficient for you.

How many joints are there in the human body?
640 muscles. 206 bones. 360 joints. Ask a Question

Roughly 850 years before the time when Muhammad claimed prophethood, we are told that the following was taught in Chinese philosophy:

In the Springs and Autumns of Lü Pu-wei (Lü shih ch'un-ch'iu, ca. 239 B.C.), ...

The next two examples of relations between the cosmos and the body are perhaps two centuries earlier, and are more general. They come from Lü shih ch'un-ch'iu. They are not particularly early in the history of microcosmic correspondences, but rather exhibit their full development in philosophical writing.

Human beings have 360 joints, nine body openings, and five yin and six yang systems of function. In the flesh tightness is desirable; in the blood vessels (hsueh mai) free flow is desirable; in the sinews and bones solidity is desirable; in the operations of the heart and mind harmony is desirable; in the essential ch'i regular motion is desirable. When [these desiderata] are realized, illness has nowhere to abide, and there is nothing from which pathology can develop. When illness lasts and pathology develops, it is because the essential ch'i has become static. ...

(Nathan Sivin, State, Cosmos, and Body in the Last Three Centuries B.C. [For Harvard Journal of Asiatic Studies]

According to Nathan Sivin, this was already common teaching in the third century B.C., i.e. it is apparently documented even earlier. We find that this correspondence is also part of (at least some forms of) Buddhism (Buddha lived roughly 500 B.C.).

Buddhism and the Heaven-Human Relationship

Under Emperor Wu of the Han dynasty, Confucianism was adopted as the official creed of the state. The most influential Confucian thinker of the time was Dong Zhongshu (195?–105? BCE), who in his writings argued clearly and forcefully for the view that Heaven and human beings combine to form a single entity.

In his Chunqiu fanlu or Luxuriant Gems of the Spring and Autumn Annals, in the section entitled "How human Beings Second the Numbers of Heaven," he states: "Human beings have 360 joints because this exactly matches the number of Heaven’s [days]. Their bodies, their bones and flesh, match the thickness of the earth. Their ears and eyes are bright and keen like the qualities of the sun and moon, and in their bodies there are hollows and veins like the configurations of the rivers and valleys."

And in speaking of the forces of the yin and yang, he says: "Heaven too has its moods of joy and anger, and its heart filled with sorrow or delight which second those of human beings. In the ways in which these likenesses match up, we see that Heaven and human beings are one."

These passages are clear examples of the concept of "Heaven and humankind as one" in the thought of Dong Zhongshu. ... (Dialogues on Eastern Wisdom

[303Guy]

Originally Posted by Shiloh1

Roughly 850 years before the time when Muhammad claimed prophethood, we are told that the following was taught in Chinese philosophy:

In the Springs and Autumns of Lü Pu-wei (Lü shih ch'un-ch'iu, ca. 239 B.C.), ...

And don't forget the claim that the Indian king of Dhar in Madhya Pradesh, a Muslim, witnessed the splitting of the moon by Muhammad..
This suggests that the 360 joints thing was brought from the east.

Originally Posted by 303Guy

And don't forget the claim that the Indian king of Dhar in Madhya Pradesh, a Muslim, witnessed the splitting of the moon by Muhammad..
This suggests that the 360 joints thing was brought from the east.

Imagine all the things we have no witness too that got culturally transferred.

[truth_teller]

Originally Posted by Shirina

Uh huh ... a guy who "claims" to have been swallowed by a whale. No witnesses. Not a one.

No explanation as to why a whale, which eats plankton and other very small things, would swallow a full-grown human male. Strange, too, how he wasn't dissolved in the whale's stomach acid.

It's a massive 50 gallon drum filled with Kool-Aid, and you're drinking up every last drop.

you do not believe in Allah so it is expected from you and from similar persons that they will not believe the supernatural events and there are many supernatural events.

Allah inspired the whale to swallow Yunus (Jonah) without scratching his meat, or break his bones .

And, verily, Yunus (Jonah) was one of the Messengers.
When he ran to the laden ship:
Then he (agreed to) cast lots, and he was among the losers.
Then a (big) fish swallowed him as he had done an act worthy of blame.
Had he not been of them who glorify Allah,
He would have indeed remained inside its belly (the fish) till the Day of Resurrection.
But We cast him forth on the naked shore while he was sick,
And We caused a plant of gourd to grow over him. The Holy Quran.

[303Guy]

Originally Posted by truth_teller

you do not believe in Allah so it is expected from you and from similar persons that they will not believe the supernatural events and there are many supernatural events.

Allah inspired the whale to swallow Yunus (Jonah) without scratching his meat, or break his bones .

Are you a believer in magic?
Is a miracle not merely magic?

[TroutDude]

Originally Posted by omega2xx

Goggle "man swallowed by a whale" and you will find it actually happened.

You believe one cell is the origin of all life we have today. You believe the leg of a small land animal became the fin of a big sea creature and it nose became a blowhole. You believe that with no evidence. What is more ridiculous what I believe, and it actually happened and what you belieie that is genetically impossible

Don't complain to me. Complain to the one who wrote the account of it happening.

And you are drinking from a 100 gallon drum that is laced with non-scientific poison.

It is not a coincidence at all. God planned it that way.

???


What you need to do is prove it is silly. Why should I believe anything you say?



So far all you have done is whine about what i believe. Now it is time for you with your great knowlegde to explain how the universe came into beinq and how a single cell was the mommy and daddy of all the life we have today.

That is because until you can prove your default position is a better explanation, it is still valid.

The above, ladies and gentlemen, is the sound of a clanging bell, within an empty vessel.