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Old 08-19-2017, 04:13 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
2,816 posts, read 3,924,940 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truth_teller View Post
Mahammad knew the number from the one who created them.

The Holy Quran and the Hadith are not detail scientific books , the Quran is the final Holy Book From Allah to all mankind
and it is considered the constitution and the Laws that must be comply by every one in this world .

it is more 1400 years old and it also contain stories and kind of history events
and hints and signs to scientific facts
these scientific facts are considered miracles because it could not be told by any human being at that time 1400 years ago,
also they are considered proofs against non believers who do not believe in the creator or those who do not follow Islam.
The Hadith is the saying of the prophet Mahammad and it contains more details about the religion
and in some there are scientific information were not know until the recent time.
You might get some disagreement on this quote (the Quran is the final Holy Book From Allah to all mankind
and it is considered the constitution and the Laws that must be comply by every one in this world .) from the Baha'i's, Mormons and even the Scientologist.
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Old 08-19-2017, 04:43 PM
 
Location: minnesota
4,644 posts, read 1,445,303 times
Reputation: 1588
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
More likely flat out wrong. There is a lot of stuff in the Quran that is wrong. The writer of the Quran had no clue what Christianity taught, but did say some very wrong things about it.
Like what? I haven't read the Quran. Is there anything in there you find morally objectionable? Maybe there is nothing wrong with the Quran...maybe there's something wrong with you because you don't believe.. See what I did there?
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Old 08-19-2017, 04:45 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
14,565 posts, read 6,557,302 times
Reputation: 1502
Well, shoot I got curious: From NOVA NOVA - Official Website | How Lightning Works
If the stepped leader does connect with the ground, however, a short circuit between the cloud and the earth occurs and large currents will flow, starting at the ground and propagating upward. These currents will partially neutralize the voltage difference the thunderstorm generated. This process is called the return stroke. Electric currents in the return stroke can be very large, measured in tens of thousands of amperes. The huge currents rapidly heat the air to roughly 50,000F—about four times hotter than the surface of the sun.
It is this hot channel produced by the return stroke that we see during cloud-to-ground lightning, and the rapid expansion and subsequent contraction of the hot channel begets the thunder we hear. Frequently, after the return stroke, the thunderstorm will send down another leader, this time called a dart leader, that quickly recharges the channel and leads to another return stroke. The fast succession of leaders and bright return strokes is what causes a lightning flash to flicker.
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Old 08-19-2017, 07:24 PM
 
1,845 posts, read 1,456,007 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amaznjohn View Post
The more you post, the more you display the ignorance of the Quran and Hadith. Lightening starts from one source, either the clouds, the ground, or an object on the ground and enters the receiving object. It then turns into heat energy into the air. It doesn't return anywhere. The electrons move in one direction.
The lightning has many phases and the most important phases are going down phase and going back phase.


once the stepped leader and the return stroke have connected, then electrons from the cloud can flow to the ground, and positive charges can flow from the ground to the cloud.
this flow of current from the cloud to the ground is visible at the return stroke. Evolution of a lightning stroke - The return stroke


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Old 08-19-2017, 07:37 PM
 
Location: minnesota
4,644 posts, read 1,445,303 times
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Hey Truth Teller, How old do Muslims believe the earth to be?
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Old 08-19-2017, 07:45 PM
 
1,845 posts, read 1,456,007 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terryj View Post
You might get some disagreement on this quote (the Quran is the final Holy Book From Allah to all mankind
and it is considered the constitution and the Laws that must be comply by every one in this world .) from the Baha'i's, Mormons and even the Scientologist.
The religion comes from the god to the messengers to us and nothing is considered a religion if it comes from human and this human is not a messenger from the god .

and the god told us that Mahammad is the final messenger therefor any one who came or come after Mahammad and claimed that he is a prophet or messenger he can be any thing except a messenger or prophet .

he can be a religious person or under illusion or cheater or imposter or advantage taker.
in other word he is wrong and those who follow him are wrong and not only them even the Christians who are following a true messenger Jesus are wrong because they believe things that are not correct such as
1- they believe Jesus was crucified and he was not
2- they believe Jesus died and he did not die yet
3- they believe Jesus was resurrected and he was not (because he did not die)
4- they believe Jesus is the god or and the son of the god and he is not.
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Old 08-19-2017, 10:23 PM
 
1,845 posts, read 1,456,007 times
Reputation: 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8 View Post
Hey Truth Teller, How old do Muslims believe the earth to be?
there is no reference regarding this in the Quran and the Hadith .
there is reference about the time took to create the skies and the earth
And indeed We created the heavens and the earth and all between them in six Days
and nothing of fatigue touched Us. The Holy Quran.
*************
He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days
and then rose over (Istawa) the Throne (in a manner that suits His Majesty).
He knows what goes into the earth and what comes forth from it, and what descends from the heaven and what ascends thereto.
And He is with you (by His Knowledge) wheresoever you may be. And Allah is the All-Seer of what you do. The Holy Quran.
***************
And He it is Who has created the heavens and the earth in six Days and His Throne was on the water,
that He might try you, which of you is the best in deeds.
But if you were to say to them: "You shall indeed be raised up after death,"
those who disbelieve would be sure to say, "This is nothing but obvious magic. "The Holy Quran.
********************
one day with Allah is = 1000 years.
And they will bid thee hasten on the Doom, and Allah faileth not His promise,
but lo! a Day with Allah is as a thousand years of what ye reckon. The Holy Quran.
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Old 08-20-2017, 04:37 AM
 
32,590 posts, read 7,923,070 times
Reputation: 4597
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
Well, shoot I got curious: From NOVA NOVA - Official Website | How Lightning Works
If the stepped leader does connect with the ground, however, a short circuit between the cloud and the earth occurs and large currents will flow, starting at the ground and propagating upward. These currents will partially neutralize the voltage difference the thunderstorm generated. This process is called the return stroke. Electric currents in the return stroke can be very large, measured in tens of thousands of amperes. The huge currents rapidly heat the air to roughly 50,000F—about four times hotter than the surface of the sun.
It is this hot channel produced by the return stroke that we see during cloud-to-ground lightning, and the rapid expansion and subsequent contraction of the hot channel begets the thunder we hear. Frequently, after the return stroke, the thunderstorm will send down another leader, this time called a dart leader, that quickly recharges the channel and leads to another return stroke. The fast succession of leaders and bright return strokes is what causes a lightning flash to flicker.
So we can say the Quran got that one right? Or Not? Flickering is one thing, A recharge is another. A visible return stroke I don't quite see there.

Ansd we still have salt and fresh water mixing and no barriers between the seas, really. The Quran got that one wrong, and it's can't be got right again, even if we do find there are reports of return lightning strikes. It looks like the Quran has hadith.

There's another element, too. Did none of these Quran apologists bother to check? Ok, they thought it must be true, and they just flick through Google and find something that looks good and present it as evidence. But they didn't bother to check that they were right?

I suppose not. since they knew they were right on Faith anyway, and even if they were wrong, hey, what does it matter if some converts are made?

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 08-20-2017 at 04:51 AM..
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Old 08-20-2017, 07:43 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
14,565 posts, read 6,557,302 times
Reputation: 1502
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
So we can say the Quran got that one right? Or Not? Flickering is one thing, A recharge is another. A visible return stroke I don't quite see there.

Ansd we still have salt and fresh water mixing and no barriers between the seas, really. The Quran got that one wrong, and it's can't be got right again, even if we do find there are reports of return lightning strikes. It looks like the Quran has hadith.

There's another element, too. Did none of these Quran apologists bother to check? Ok, they thought it must be true, and they just flick through Google and find something that looks good and present it as evidence. But they didn't bother to check that they were right?

I suppose not. since they knew they were right on Faith anyway, and even if they were wrong, hey, what does it matter if some converts are made?
Well, hey! That's what zealots do. My point, though was that it is not just a two-way exchange, but a movement toward balance that may take awhile to settle, so no, apparently qu'ran or hadditha got that a little off too.
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Old 08-20-2017, 11:58 AM
 
32,590 posts, read 7,923,070 times
Reputation: 4597
Quote:
Originally Posted by truth_teller View Post
The lightning has many phases and the most important phases are going down phase and going back phase.


once the stepped leader and the return stroke have connected, then electrons from the cloud can flow to the ground, and positive charges can flow from the ground to the cloud.
this flow of current from the cloud to the ground is visible at the return stroke. Evolution of a lightning stroke - The return stroke

Yes, but the thing is that it does not appear to return immediately as a response to the downward stroke, which is what the Quran quote says. So, even if there is an immediate response, it produces a flickering effect, not the upward discharge, and even if there are ground to cloud lightning discharges, they take time to build up and are not an instant response to the downward discharge.

Unless there is an instant smackback of lightning visibly going up, the Quran quote is wrong, even though there are phenomena that can be made to look like it.

I would guess, by the way that the picture is an illustration of the idea, not a evidence of the effect. The down and up lightning has the same outline. I won't use the word "fake" but isn't it so?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
OR the persistence in the face of proof of his error.
Well....I like him; he tries hard. he has his Faith - claims and he is fighting like a madman to make them stand up on evidence (which is what the Faithful do, even if they claim that evidence is irrelevant and Faith is all that matters - but only when the evidence turns around and bites them in the ass). He has produced some good stuff, even if it turned out not to be as sound a proof as he would have liked.

I suspect he is still keeping back "let them write another like it!" for when he has run out of moving mountains and knocking stars .

Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
Well, hey! That's what zealots do. My point, though was that it is not just a two-way exchange, but a movement toward balance that may take awhile to settle, so no, apparently qu'ran or hadditha got that a little off too.
It makes no odds - no more than what basis the Bible -believers use to argue from. Whether they believe the Ot as solidly true a the NT or not makes no odds. We just have more to debunk if they do, as we saw with Sooth -seller here, claiming the Hadiths were the word of God. That means the Fly's wing car -crash kicks in and does more damage than if he said it was the just the word of men.

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 08-20-2017 at 12:14 PM..
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