Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-29-2017, 11:05 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,083 posts, read 20,582,163 times
Reputation: 5927

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains View Post
You say that you understand the difference, but you act as if you don't. I am inclined to believe actions rather than words.

I could be wrong though, and I prefer to give my debate partners every chance to redeem themselves. Can you show me the source of this alleged atheist dogma?

@Transponder. You are correct. I didn't catch Tzap's claim that she knew god at birth. I don't believe it, and I don't think it is possible.

If you are going to qualify your thought and categorize infants as un-thinking atheists as opposed to thinking atheists, I would hesitantly agree with you, but it leaves open the possibility of claiming infants as unthinking theists as well. Arach rightly points out that it is a marketing slogan, and relatively effective as far as it goes. I might use it myself if accosted on the street by a fire and brimstone preacher, just to make a quick point, but I abandon it as soon as reasoned debate starts.

Tl;dr. Transponder, you are a heretic! You and your deviant atheist kind must be crushed!
You are correct and so is Arach for once, though he spoils it for himself by using it as a well -poisoner. In fact I remember posting on the AN debate that it was important as a tactic to deny theists claiming that we are all born Theists. He screamed his protests at this idea and was not mollified by my saying that it was a necessary tactic but I did think it was also true. Give or take some instincts which might possibly be Interpreted as a perception of a god (name your own - the religion will soon grab you and tell you which one it is) but I would say must have a survival instinct - to trust, and doesn't have the purpose of divine revelation.

In fact when you think of it, if that was it, we'd all have it, know what it was and would all have the same religion. My money's on a survival instinct that is not really an experience of God.

But there again, the sortatheists may object that I am talking Religion, not Theism. And I would repeat that I am quite sure we are born irreligious until we are taught a religion. As soon as they can get their grubby hands on us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
See post 19 for examples of dogma used by atheists, and dogmatic posts from here on this forum. All are direct quotes.

I am not your debating partner and I have no interest in debate. I am participating in a discussion.
All nothing to do with Dogma -as explained, unless you are using the term is a very loose way to indicate a determined, resolute surety of view, a sure, fearless resolution to speak out uncompromisingly and a fearless resolute determination to metaphorically kick theist heads until their eyes rattle.

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 08-29-2017 at 11:14 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-29-2017, 11:17 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,083 posts, read 20,582,163 times
Reputation: 5927
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
The transition for not deploying religious faith (believing asserted truth without a requirement of substantiation) was simultaneous with the dawning realization that it is a failed epistemology that actually does not tend to lead toward truth / reality and is horrible at either explaining or predicting outcomes in experienced reality.
What a brain All I ever did was walk out of church muttering "what a bunch of wankers."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-29-2017, 11:39 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
19,825 posts, read 13,361,179 times
Reputation: 9822
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
What a brain All I ever did was walk out of church muttering "what a bunch of wankers."
*chuckle* well ... you can't see the forest for the trees when you're in it. For me, that came later. Although, as you know by now, I can't really bring myself to see most of them, particularly outside of fundamentalism, as idiots and charlatans. Most are just using a needless abstraction overlay to understand the vicissitudes of life, and when it comes to getting through life, any port in a storm. My real beef is with dominionists and Christian nationalists who dream of transforming 'Murica into a not-so-quasi-theocracy, and thereby impacting the freedoms of others.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-29-2017, 04:03 PM
 
11,523 posts, read 14,611,972 times
Reputation: 16821
3rd grade after hearing those crazy nuns say crazy things.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-29-2017, 07:29 PM
 
22,011 posts, read 19,112,807 times
Reputation: 18149
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
... All I ever did was walk out of church muttering "what a bunch of wankers."
it is apparent from your posts that you have progressed no further since then.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-29-2017, 11:39 PM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,083 posts, read 20,582,163 times
Reputation: 5927
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
it is apparent from your posts that you have progressed no further since then.
It is apparent from your last dismissive post that my view at the time was perfectly sound. I do not do abstract semantics. All the talk about namin, defining and labelling things and ideas is related to real things. But your last post conveniently allowed you to dismiss the whole thing.

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 08-29-2017 at 11:49 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-30-2017, 08:07 AM
 
22,011 posts, read 19,112,807 times
Reputation: 18149
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
It is apparent from your last dismissive post that my view at the time was perfectly sound. I do not do abstract semantics. All the talk about namin, defining and labelling things and ideas is related to real things. But your last post conveniently allowed you to dismiss the whole thing.
Dismissive is exactly the view you hold. And it is exactly what you do. Then and now.

Question for anyone:
What is your view of someone who describes atheists as "bunch of wankers"?

What would you think about a person who said "i read what the atheists say online, they are a bunch of wankers."

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
... All I ever did was walk out of church muttering "what a bunch of wankers."

Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 08-30-2017 at 08:26 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-30-2017, 08:52 AM
 
22,011 posts, read 19,112,807 times
Reputation: 18149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumbo10 View Post
I went to church growing up and believed in heaven. But always had questions.

Honestly, not sure if I get the context of dogma (which is part of the reason I asked the question) but I find it very hard to believe that any human actually knows what happens when we die. I think religion should be more how you live life on earth. Been that way for about 2 years since I started looking more into religion, reading the bible, joining my church, listening to a number of different people -
professionals in many fields and people on here.

I have faith that no single religion or scripture has all the answers.
So what dogma DO you now currently believe in jumbo?

Instead of what it "isnt" for you, tell us what it "is" for you the dogma you do now currently believe. That would be the portion of the opening post topic "when did you start believing the dogma" you yourself now currently believe.

dogma
noun
doctrines, tenets, or beliefs
a positive, arrogant assertion of opinion

Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 08-30-2017 at 09:07 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-30-2017, 08:58 AM
 
18,926 posts, read 6,927,349 times
Reputation: 3557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumbo10 View Post
Just curious if there's been a transition for you and what was it like and when did it occur?
Why would I?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-30-2017, 10:25 AM
 
678 posts, read 427,644 times
Reputation: 316
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
So what dogma DO you now currently believe in jumbo?

Instead of what it "isnt" for you, tell us what it "is" for you the dogma you do now currently believe. That would be the portion of the opening post topic "when did you start believing the dogma" you yourself now currently believe.

dogma
noun
doctrines, tenets, or beliefs
a positive, arrogant assertion of opinion
I don't believe in a singular religious doctrine. I'm not sure how much more there is to say, but you can tell me what dogma that is

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
Why would I?
Possibly an experience or influence that made you see things differently.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:59 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top