Christian parents are suing a school over a trans child (children, truth)

[Tzaphkiel]

Originally Posted by Rafius

Indeed...and a great example of why the cancer of religion should be eradicated.

that is a flawed erroneous profoundly unhelpful statement and conclusion

it's like saying for every relationship where there is domestic violence "men are pigs, men should be eradicated"


it is about getting professional help when there are problems in the home: medical help, emotional help, professional help, counseling, therapy. For all the family members, because all the family members are affected. That is how the cycle of violence and abuse is ended, that is how we change the patterns of unhealthy relationships we learned growing up. Until we seek help, they are repeated, over and over.

[PriscillaVanilla]

This lawsuit won't go anywhere.

[nateswift]

Originally Posted by Arach Angle

you prove my point.

"its them; not us".
thinking.

you're the bully. bullying us with "it isn't right", "what about the poor children.", or the favorite tactic 'but its not their fault."

you bully people. There is nothing i said that was illogical. You are being illogical and a bully. You blame me. You will not take any responsibility for the actions of your own people. whatever they are. I do, I take responsibility for the wrong in my group very seriously.

good job nate
keep the hate.

funny again, not a word about a belief statement on god. you can't do that can you. You need a place to lay blame. work on that would ya.

Originally Posted by Arach Angle

nope it isn't. its based soley on actions of the individual. The race, religion, or any other defining characteristics is never in question. Only the actions of the people/person.

Your right to do what you want stops at another person. No matter what your "whatever" is. white, black, brown, or pink. I don't care.

also, the science/math says we can make predictions on people's behaviors knowing something about that individual. Insurance is based in it. It may not feel good, but its true

so letting people get away with certain inappropriate behaviors because they are "whatever" is being a bigot too. Forcing people to have to accept antisocial or dangerous behavior of people do to their race, religion, or whatever is wrong ward. I am surprised you don't see it. shocked that you think diferent to tell you the truth.

so again, when the war starts, I am just not sure what side to take. I am not sure i like siding with wolves in sheep's clothing. be them fundy theists or mill atheists. I am ok with siding with sheep, or wolf, if they are open and honest about what is going on.

blus·ter
ˈbləstər/Submit
verb
1.
talk in a loud, aggressive, or indignant way with little effect.
"you threaten and bluster, but won't carry it through"
synonyms: rant, rave, thunder, bellow, sound off;

You have 2 substantive questions before you which you are avoiding by your bluster: 1. What REAL harm is done by a transgender child acting on his impulses.

2. How do you answer the demonstrable REAL harm done to kids by others trained in your attitude of "other" and demands that they be removed from "normal" classrooms. Start with the overt bullying which is a matter of record WITH demonstrable bad effects on the bullied children and then go on to the effects of segregation.

You won't because you know you have nothing but your religion based prejudices and You KNOW such childten are bullied by those trained in bigotry.

Belief in God has NOTHING to do with determining actions in a civil setting and only a cerain type of "believer" holds such ideas and attitudes: fundamentalists.

You want me to make a faith statement? I believe that Jesus wanted us to love EVERYone and clearly stated this. Love in this context is all about a concern for the well-being of people in such situation.

[ClaraC]

Originally Posted by Rafius

Indeed...and a great example of why the cancer of religion should be eradicated.

And how, exactly, would you propose to do that?

(I don't even want to know the answer. It's certainly been attempted in the most ugly and evil of societies).

[ClaraC]

I have some questions about this. If this were a high school boy identifying as a girl, I'd feel differently. I'm not sure what the wisdom is for parents providing girl clothing to a first grade child who was born appearing to be male. I personally have known a couple kids who identified at that age as the opposite gender, and they felt differently later on. If this child continues to identify as a girl in teen years, that's the time IMHO to make the transition.

I say this, as a true supporter of LGBT community, and love very deeply family members who are gay.

I guess this is the way I felt about little Ruby Bridges, in Louisiana, who was the only Black first grader in an elementary school and had to be escorted to school by federal marshals for her protection during the civil rights movement. Desegregation is certainly a laudable goal - but to toss a little first grader into the flames to fight this battle by herself? NO. Not my child, that's for sure.

Both goals are respectable - acceptance for transgendered people, and desegregation, but little 6 year olds shouldn't be thrown into the fire to fight that battle, IMHO.

[Wardendresden]

Originally Posted by Arach Angle

nope it isn't. its based soley on actions of the individual. The race, religion, or any other defining characteristics is never in question. Only the actions of the people/person.

Your right to do what you want stops at another person. No matter what your "whatever" is. white, black, brown, or pink. I don't care.

also, the science/math says we can make predictions on people's behaviors knowing something about that individual. Insurance is based in it. It may not feel good, but its true

so letting people get away with certain inappropriate behaviors because they are "whatever" is being a bigot too. Forcing people to have to accept antisocial or dangerous behavior of people do to their race, religion, or whatever is wrong ward. I am surprised you don't see it. shocked that you think diferent to tell you the truth.

so again, when the war starts, I am just not sure what side to take. I am not sure i like siding with wolves in sheep's clothing. be them fundy theists or mill atheists. I am ok with siding with sheep, or wolf, if they are open and honest about what is going on.

Well, the scientific study DID say that those embracing racist and homophobic attitudes lack cognitive skills found in those who are more open!

You've done what all social conservatives do---pick the side with the largest majority that appears to offer "stability." Since those parents suing are the ones upset--it is THEY who need to vacate the school premises with their child.

I agree there will be a war--a literal, gun-toting war, fought in the streets and homes and offices. And you'd better hope it is while the current POTUS is in office so he can sic the military on the many who want nothing to do with nazis, racists, and haters of LGBTQ people. He has already suggested arming local police with military weapons (something Hitler thought was useful early on)

Then China can take over as it ultimately will.

That's just being open and honest with a different point of view!

[nateswift]

Originally Posted by ClaraC

.....
Both goals are respectable - acceptance for transgendered people, and desegregation, but little 6 year olds shouldn't be thrown into the fire to fight that battle, IMHO.

It is only a "fire" if there are children of parents like the ones contemplating suing the school and they have been infected with the attitudes of those parents. As long as the teachers are aware of and on the lookout for antisocila actions by ANY 0f the children and how to deal with such bullies there should be no "fire."

Perhaps we HAVE learned something from Little Rock.

[Rafius]

Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel

that is a flawed erroneous profoundly unhelpful statement and conclusion

it's like saying for every relationship where there is domestic violence "men are pigs, men should be eradicated"

No it isn't. It's like saying that domestic violence should be eradicated.

Whether the superstitious beliefs cause problems individually or not is rather irrelevant. It is the the fact that wilful ignorance and superstition holds back society generally that is the problem.

Originally Posted by ClaraC

And how, exactly, would you propose to do that?

Stop giving it the respect it has had for too long would be a good first step. Removing it out of the public arena would be a good second.

[ClaraC]

Originally Posted by nateswift

It is only a "fire" if there are children of parents like the ones contemplating suing the school and they have been infected with the attitudes of those parents. As long as the teachers are aware of and on the lookout for antisocila actions by ANY 0f the children and how to deal with such bullies there should be no "fire."

Perhaps we HAVE learned something from Little Rock.

Nateswift, I don't know how many first graders you interact with, but they are very aware of gender specific clothing. A boy in a dress would create a LOT of attention. They do things like have the boy table and the girl table at lunch, they are allowed to pass out birthday invitations only if all the class is invited OR all of one gender is invited. They operate in a bimodal social system - the boys and the girls.

To think that it's only the parents or adults who would react with surprise and disdain for this child is just incorrect. I don't think it's wise to subject a 6 year old to this trauma when he/she is trying to navigate the school social system which is hard even for the most socially accepted children.

And that's why I keep seeing gender neutral dress codes. That don't include classical girl clothing. There was recently a post on city data from a grandmother who is angry that her granddaughter's elementary school doesn't allow skirts and dresses, only shorts and pants, which are completely gender neutral.

Because of this. Because they don't want to make it really difficult for children who identify with the opposite gender than what's on their birth certificate. You can identify with that, without making it clear at a glance to a stranger that you're different.

And they don't want to have to deal with some wall-eyed parent who will sue if a boy wears a dress to school.

[nateswift]

Then, Clara, you have an excellent solution to the problem in gender neutral clothing at this stage. There is no reason in the world that I can see for making distinctions at this stage. I've always been approving of fluid perceptions at any age and was very happy to hear of the interaction between my nephew and his older sister playing house in the home of my very handy sister. The boy said to his sister, "No, I want to be the Mommy, let ME use the saw."