Why try to identify as someone you aren't? (doctrine, scriptures, teaching)

[Richard1965]

Originally Posted by BaptistFundie

Weird....my "Christian Bible" has 66 books in it---39 of which are OT books. And every single one of them is about Jesus.

Weird, there is no mention of Jesus in my Tanakh...Imagine that...You have the Old Testament, which is not the Tanakh...

[nateswift]

Originally Posted by Jeaniee

Get it?? This isn't about a "version" of Christianity. It's about "WHAT IS YOUR SOURCE OF AUTHORITY?""

If you do not believe in the Koran as true, then you are not a Muslim. If you do not believe in the Bible as truth, then you are not a Christian. It's about claiming truth in a higher authority while denying that truth at the same time. Talking about of BOTH sides of the mouth. No one likes liars or deceit, though much of the time, it stems from ignorance.
......

Funny, your "authority" names quite a different authority or guide. Why do you put the Bible up instead of THAT guide?


There is a world of difference between believing that the Bible contains truth which the Spirit will reveal AS truth, and believing that the Bible is truth which limits that Spirit by what is said within its pages, setting it up as authority over what Jesus promised.

[nateswift]

Originally Posted by BaptistFundie

You have an opinion. She has an opinion. You seem to say her opinion doesn't matter, but expect others to believe you. Weird. You're ironically intolerant of other people.

Why do you call explaining what we believe to be true as "intolerant?" By the same token you are "intolerant" of our view.


Let's discuss the facts without the obvious rhetoric.

[nateswift]

Originally Posted by BaptistFundie

Yet, here you are lecturing others to believe as you do and to agree with you.

It's called discussion and it's NOT a basis for whining.

[phetaroi]

Originally Posted by Jeaniee

Sorry this is off-topic a bit but if a person claims to be Muslim and doesn't believe the Koran is truth, then they are not Muslim.

Since the Bible is CHRISTianity aka a form of religion to the world, and CHRIST followers are CHRISTians per the bible, does anyone know what those who follow the Koran are called by chance?? i know their religion is called Muslim but what does the Koran teach they are called?

So now, not only are you telling Christians who is and who isn't a "Real Christian", now you are also the decider of who is and is not a Muslim.

Just remarkable.

[Jeaniee]

Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius

Jesus says that anyone who keeps the laws of Moses and teaches others to keep the laws of Moses will be the greatest in the kingdom of heaven but most Christians wont believe this.

First of all, sorry this is so long winded. But just this sentence^^^ alone, encompasses so much

Jesus didn’t come to abolish the Laws of Moses, He came to fulfill OT laws
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...7&version=NASB

BUT...we are still to strive to keep the ethical and moral laws with the guidance of the holy spirit. Not sure why that is confusing.
Since the greatest commandments of all were instituted in the New Testament by our God himself, aka Jesus
We don't need to get too legalistic about following OT laws UNLESS re-iterated in the NT aka the New covenant
OLD LAWS, the OLD Covenant/, The Old Testament laws need to be understood as the foundation to keeping the the two greatest laws of all https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...hew%2022:36-40

36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” 37 And He said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the great and [a]foremost commandment. 39 The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”

There are 613 Moses (Mosaic) OT laws combined all together and only 24 hrs in a day.
Moral and Ethical laws stand but again, fall under the umbrella of the two greatest commandments.

Without Jesus shedding blood JUST ONCE as our ONCE AND FOR ALL sacrifice, animals would still need to die.
Shedding it's blood for each sin commited by humans.
Without Jesus, we'd rake up “tickets” which only damn us.
Some tickets are large and face huge penalties like murder, adultery, etc.. and others not as much.
But they accumulate. Kinda like if CPS comes out to your house. You are NEVER innocent,
it goes on record to pile up against you as part of the FULL STORY.
CPS gets involved again, even a decade later, and they see you had "issues' before.

Jesus became our animal sacrifice dying once and for all so we can be viewed by God as pure and innocent.
Even when we stumble and sin.
Yes even then.
BUT....the bible also tells us we will be conforming to the image of God, thus overall, sinning LESS.
If not, then we weren't saved to begin with.

Once saved always saved. Christ died Once for Always.

Jesus died to fulfill the ceremonial laws. The Rituals if you will. Those commands not found in the New Covenant.
We are to adhere to the Moral and Ethical laws which are repeated in the New Covenant (new testament)

EXAMPLE-
Remember the Sabbath Day to make it holy- OT Law https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...11&version=KJV

VERSUS

One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. Romans 14:5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind.

That means someone who considers the Sabbath Day and makes it holy, is fine as they are fully convinced in their own mind. Another who chooses a different day of the week to make holy, is also ok as long as they are fully convinced in their own mind. As God in the flesh is the "lord of the sabbath", he is the author behind those laws.

POINT? Obviously it is to set aside one day a week to make it holy.

Why people don’t want to understand we are to still teach and keep certain laws of Moses, despite them being repeated in the NT, alludes me. Of course we cannot keep the laws of Moses fully thru human effort.
But that is why the Holy Spirit slowly conforms us to Christ (Col 3), so it will be A natural way of living.

If you run into someone who IS NOT familiar with the book of Hebrews then they may want to cling to Old Laws that don’t apply anymore
The laws that oppressed and damned Gods people
Not understanding Jesus came to fulfill those laws and to prevent our damnation
They spend their time clinging to legalistic rituals instead of glorifying god, it becomes all about them.
Self Centered. Then boasting starts. These people are just mimicking the OT Pharisees

So they want to teach and cling to OT law instead of heeding the greatest commandment of all,
which is given in the NT/New Covenant-the law of LOVE.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...hew%2022:36-40


Jesus butted heads with legalistic pharisees over their “interpretation” of the OT laws anyhow.
They didn’t even understand them. They damned people so are a waste of time spent.
These Old lws were only meant to be “our tutor” or “our guardian” to keep us healthy and safe
until Christ died and rose again. Then the new covenant took affect-
Galatians 3:24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.

Without understanding the OT laws, where they fail, how flawed they were regarding eternity, how dangerous they were (they only damned us) and how it helps us understand the gravity of our sin, it makes it more difficult to fully grasp the New Testament and it’s laws.
How those are fulfilled, how we stills drive to keep the laws which are remaining (with the guidance of the Holy Spirit) yet understanding the most important commands are to love the lord god with all your heart and soul, then the second greatest command to love your neighbor as yourself. Because if you love your neighbor, you will witness the good news to them to prevent them from remaining estranged from their Father for life. Not to mention you can never have enough brothers and sisters :thumbs:

[nateswift]

Originally Posted by Jeaniee

Sorry this is off-topic a bit but if a person claims to be Muslim and doesn't believe the Koran is truth, then they are not Muslim.

Since the Bible is CHRISTianity aka a form of religion to the world, and CHRIST followers are CHRISTians per the bible, does anyone know what those who follow the Koran are called by chance?? i know their religion is called Muslim but what does the Koran teach they are called?

As pointed out, the faith Muhammed taught is Islam and it's followers are known as muslim. The authority for Islam is Qu'ran, although there is a secondary source known as Hadith or sayings of the Prophet and the Sunna or accounts of his daily practices.


There are three things that have been traditionally claimed as authority in Christianity: the Bible, traditions and decisions of the Church, and the Holy Spirit. You come from a tradition that claims "Sola Scriptura," or Bible as the only authority. Interestingly enough, the traditions that claim the Bible and the traditions that claim the Church both claim they are guided by the Spirit, but neither one provides a description of the character of that Spirit to give a basis for the claim.


The Bible gives the Spirit as "guide."

[Richard1965]

Originally Posted by Jeaniee

First of all, sorry this is so long winded. But just this sentence^^^ alone, encompasses so much

Jesus didn’t come to abolish the Laws of Moses, He came to fulfill OT laws
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...7&version=NASB

BUT...we are still to strive to keep the ethical and moral laws with the guidance of the holy spirit. Not sure why that is confusing.
Since the greatest commandments of all were instituted in the New Testament by our God himself, aka Jesus
We don't need to get too legalistic about following OT laws UNLESS re-iterated in the NT aka the New covenant
OLD LAWS, the OLD Covenant/, The Old Testament laws need to be understood as the foundation to keeping the the two greatest laws of all https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...hew%2022:36-40

36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” 37 And He said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the great and [a]foremost commandment. 39 The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”

There are 613 Moses (Mosaic) OT laws combined all together and only 24 hrs in a day.
Moral and Ethical laws stand but again, fall under the umbrella of the two greatest commandments.

Without Jesus shedding blood JUST ONCE as our ONCE AND FOR ALL sacrifice, animals would still need to die.
Shedding it's blood for each sin commited by humans.
Without Jesus, we'd rake up “tickets” which only damn us.
Some tickets are large and face huge penalties like murder, adultery, etc.. and others not as much.
But they accumulate. Kinda like if CPS comes out to your house. You are NEVER innocent,
it goes on record to pile up against you as part of the FULL STORY.
CPS gets involved again, even a decade later, and they see you had "issues' before.

Jesus became our animal sacrifice dying once and for all so we can be viewed by God as pure and innocent.
Even when we stumble and sin.
Yes even then.
BUT....the bible also tells us we will be conforming to the image of God, thus overall, sinning LESS.
If not, then we weren't saved to begin with.

Once saved always saved. Christ died Once for Always.

Jesus died to fulfill the ceremonial laws. The Rituals if you will. Those commands not found in the New Covenant.
We are to adhere to the Moral and Ethical laws which are repeated in the New Covenant (new testament)

EXAMPLE-
Remember the Sabbath Day to make it holy- OT Law https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...11&version=KJV

VERSUS

One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. Romans 14:5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind.

That means someone who considers the Sabbath Day and makes it holy, is fine as they are fully convinced in their own mind. Another who chooses a different day to make holy in the week, is also ok as long as they are fully convinced of such in their mind

POINT? Obviously it is to set aside one day a week to make it holy.



Why people don’t want to understand we are to still teach and keep certain laws of Moses, despite them being repeated in the NT, alludes me. Of course we cannot keep the laws of Moses fully thru human effort.
But that is why the Holy Spirit slowly conforms us to Christ (Col 3), so it will be A natural way of living.

If you run into someone who IS NOT familiar with the book of Hebrews then they may want to cling to Old Laws that don’t apply anymore Not understanding Jesus came to fulfill those laws and to prevent our damnation
They spend their time clinging to legalistic rituals instead of glorifying god, it becomes all about them.
Self Centered. Then boasting starts. These people are just mimicking the OT Pharisees

So they want to teach and cling to OT law instead of heeding the greatest commandment of all,
which is given in the NT/New Covenant-the law of LOVE.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...hew%2022:36-40


Jesus butted heads with legalistic pharisees over their “interpretation” of the OT laws anyhow.
They didn’t even understand them. They damned people so are a waste of time spent.
These Old lws were only meant to be “our tutor” or “our guardian” to keep us healthy and safe
until Christ died and rose again. Then the new covenant took affect-
Galatians 3:24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.

Without understanding the OT laws, where they fail, how flawed they were regarding eternity, how dangerous they were (they only damned us) and how it helps us understand the gravity of our sin, it makes it more difficult to fully grasp the New Testament and it’s laws.
How those are fulfilled, how we stills drive to keep the laws which are remaining (with the guidance of the Holy Spirit) yet understanding the most important commands are to love the lord god with all your heart and soul, then the second greatest command to love your neighbor as yourself. Because if you love your neighbor, you will witness the good news to them to prevent them from remaining estranged from their Father for life. Not to mention you can never have enough brothers and sisters :thumbs:

What do you think that "fulfill" means?...

[nateswift]

Originally Posted by Richard1965

What do you think that "fulfill" means?...

Not really a subject for this thread. Take it as a statement of faith and what poster means by "Christian," a fairly narrow view and one heavily weighted with doctrines of men.

[Jeaniee]

Originally Posted by Richard1965

Did you know that Christians have not always been called “Christians”? The earliest apprentices of Jesus only became know by this title later in the first century A.D. in the large, ethnically diverse, Syrian capital of Antioch (Acts 11:26). It’s even likely that the term “Christian” was used by Antioch’s general population as a derogatory name for these followers of Jesus. The title of “Christians” was given because this group of Jews and Gentiles were followers of Jesus, whom they believed to be the Christos, meaning “the anointed one,” or the Messiah. Throughout the pages of the New Testament these earliest of believers seemed to select other names for themselves like “saints,” “brothers,” and “disciples.” However, in referring to what and who they were following, the earliest self-description we know of is followers of “the Way” (Acts 9:2; 11:26). And this description has no little significance. In describing what we call “Christianity” today as “The Way,” these first followers of Jesus made a radical claim about the person and work of Jesus.

- What were they before they were

Yes this is true Richard Neat tidbit, thanks

I generally refer to them as Disciples of Christ instead of Christians

If I recall, the earliest instance was a couple introducing themselves to Apostle Paul.

There is only one mention of Pastor and multiple mentions of Elders in the bible yet Pastor seems to have stuck too.
With it's own definition usually equating to some guy at the top of a pyramid scheme