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I had to dig through a lot of indignant reports by supporters of the Christians before I found one that mentioned that rhey went in there and distributed anti gay leaflets. I suppose that up till then, he neither knew nor cared what their religion was. Seems to me he was within his rights.
Of course this is being compared with the gay cake business.
Now, if he had been offering to cater for weddings but refused to cater for one that was heterosexual and Christian, he would have been breaking the law. Here he seems well within his rights. Again (it seems) the Christian right don't care about the facts, but about anything they can use as propaganda. Again it seems, like the "atheist schoolteacher" it will backfire on them.
I've not mentioned my personal beliefs as you already know. So relax, no need to keep repeating yourself. I am not going there
and hope you won't either.
No one can be born again a second time. John 3:14
Why? Because that would require dying a second time to even be born again. Death is the opposite of life.
The bible (Christ himself, his words) doesn't teach this in it's basic tenants. That you were a Christian but now you are not
Once you are born again, aka a Christian, you are a new creation. PERIOD. A new person
The old person died WITH CHRIST
So you cannot have died with Christ, born again as a new person, then somehow become dead again somehow morphing into your old self
Do you understand that? That is basic christian beliefs that Christ died, and you died with him. You were then raised (to life) with Christ
It is impossible to have died with Christ become a new person/creation, then suddenly decide you are no longer that new creation but you've morphed your own self into being dead again. Only our Lord decides life and death matters.
No one can be born a second time per John 3 because that would require someone to have died a second time, which is what you are saying. That is impossible. People don't die twice, three times, four times, five times, etc..
My guess is if you do not understand the basic tenants of the Christian Belief, how you died with Christ and were risen and saved with Christ, then by definition, you were not a Christian. As those beliefs of yours with regards to CHristianity don't even allow for the sinereo you are telling me. That you are no longer Christian
That doesn't mean whatever religion you are now, if you are into a different religion, you don't align with their beliefs. I cannot comment on that due to a lack of knowledge of other religions but hope to learn
You say that you aren't going to discuss your personal beliefs. Then you spend an entire post doing so.
And I certainly don't buy into your "sinereo"????????????????????????????????????? ??
Allow me to point out that the premise of the OP stigmatizes a whole "community" for the actions of one member: "Here is a prime example of the double standard and hypocrisy that exists in the LGBT community."
The fact is that there are people of any point of view that are intolerant, but the difference here is that the "fundamentalist Community" TEACHES that intolerance as opposed to individuals of the "LGBT community" who only express their individual views.
Of course I don't believe everyone in the community are like this guy, and some gay people have even come out in support of the Christian bakers. Course the media pays them no attention. But the consistency that I see is a great level of venom towards Christians in multiple examples. For instance, in almost every case of the Christian business owners, they have received vile death threats, even had their businesses vandalized. There is extreme intolerance for anyone who does not approve of the gay lifestyle from many in the LGBT community.
Of course I don't believe everyone in the community are like this guy, and some gay people have even come out in support of the Christian bakers. Course the media pays them no attention. But the consistency that I see is a great level of venom towards Christians in multiple examples. For instance, in almost every case of the Christian business owners, they have received vile death threats, even had their businesses vandalized. There is extreme intolerance for anyone who does not approve of the gay lifestyle from many in the LGBT community.
1. Then where did you learn it?
2. That typically happens when a group of people have been trodden for so long.
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Honestly, this is akin to a group of neo nazis with swastikas on their jackets coming into a jewish deli and sitting down waiting to be served - and when asked to leave, they whine, the jews are being mean to us!!
I'm a devout Christian, a follower of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, who was the absolutely most left wing liberal who ever walked the planet Earth, in sandals.
I really DO NOT understand why there is anything called the "Christian Right". Really? Did any one of them read the New Testament? Love one another as I have loved you. The last shall be first. Give your wealth away and follow me. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
It's not surprising that a gay owner of a coffee shop would fear a group of Christians and ask them to leave. And for that, I'm deeply embarrassed by the way others who call themselves Christians behave.
You say that you aren't going to discuss your personal beliefs. Then you spend an entire post doing so.
And I certainly don't buy into your "sinereo"????????????????????????????????????? ??
Do you understand the bible is where the word CHRISTian derives from and is where the definition is found?
CHRIST means in the greek, as I posted, Messiah. In the english version, that means Savior
What is CHRIST saving us from? It is death.
So once a person is dead, for them to become alive again (hence the term born again christian), they were dead originally. The opposite of death is life.
Christ only died once. If we can die over and over again then come back to the death state we were, then Christ would need to die a second time if we change our mind and want to suddenly be Christian? That is what the pharisees addressed in John 3, the verse I posted. How can I die then be born again? He explains because he died JUST ONCE for us to attone for our sons so we can live. A one time sacrifice to attone for sins. Which is different than the many sacrifices constantly occuring to atone for sins.
I am saying that the bible doesn't support that theory. There is one bodily death which saves forever. Not multiple deaths depending upon how many times we decide we are a CHRISTian or not a CHRISTian any more. Hopefully that makes sense. That is the conversation you are responding to
Honestly, this is akin to a group of neo nazis with swastikas on their jackets coming into a jewish deli and sitting down waiting to be served - and when asked to leave, they whine, the jews are being mean to us!!
The swastika is a sign of the death and murder of Jews. So that would be terrifying as a Jew to serve someone so enmeshed in my death they wear it as their clothing attire. How could I not be frightented?
It is directed straight at me, my murder and what it symbolized.
I am not sure that is akin to someone leaving pieces of paper which promote the murder of babies. Both are horrific of course.
Honestly, this is akin to a group of neo nazis with swastikas on their jackets coming into a jewish deli and sitting down waiting to be served - and when asked to leave, they whine, the jews are being mean to us!!
I'm a devout Christian, a follower of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, who was the absolutely most left wing liberal who ever walked the planet Earth, in sandals.
I really DO NOT understand why there is anything called the "Christian Right". Really? Did any one of them read the New Testament? Love one another as I have loved you. The last shall be first. Give your wealth away and follow me. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
It's not surprising that a gay owner of a coffee shop would fear a group of Christians and ask them to leave. And for that, I'm deeply embarrassed by the way others who call themselves Christians behave.
Great post.
It's my view that fundamentalists put almost all of their focus on the Old Testament.
Modern Christians put most of their focus on the New Testament.
The two are like night and day.
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