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Old 10-27-2017, 06:33 PM
 
28,432 posts, read 11,521,721 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalAngel2009 View Post
Those are mine, too. Plus I'll add:

God first and then everything else.

Knowing I have free will to do as I wish, but seeking and depending on God for His Love, guidance and comfort when needed.

Taking personal responsibility for my actions.

Receiving in my soul God's Divine Love, which makes me more loving, happy, peaceful, compassionate, forgiving, and helps me keep a positive attitude.
GOD, country, religion. Good Old Dignity.

god just means "we" instead of "me". democracy with Dignity, not vulgarity. we does not mean just keep filling the lifeboat until its sinks. That 'we" equals "nobody"
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Old 10-28-2017, 07:26 PM
 
678 posts, read 427,644 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Social - influenced morals is more relevant in a discussion about religion vs. Humanism. Whether they realize it or not, religious people generally live according to human moral laws, and just add a few extra ones their religion fastens to it like ticks or leeches to gain the same sort of authority.

P.s I kept thinking of the Jeffersonian idea that Jesus may not have been divine, but was a great moral teacher, and my own view that the Jesus of the Gospels (who I believe reflects the views of early Greek Christians rather than those of the historical Jesus) is NOT an admirable figure, a sound moralist or a source of Good Idea. In my view he is just as much a load as the rest of the Bible.

Which is why I decided to post this vid. The sermon on the Mount is perhaps regarded as the epitome of Jesus' morality. The Encapsulation of everything that makes Jesus the dude to take as a guide and mentor, divine or not. Even artheists may be fooled into thinking "Yeah, that's all good stuff, worth following, even for non -Christians."

I beg to differ. Some of it is arguable, some ludicrous. I haven't done a study myself (1) but I know a man who has. The trough is filled. Drink or not is up to you.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2V5ZWVUpn8

(1) my concern with it has been identifying as a part of Q document and also used by Luke, but unknown to either Mark or John.
I watched some of the video. I'm not too interested in debating the bible as I'm not a big scripture guy. But I do find The Big Questions (on youtube) interesting too as they'll often have religious leaders, biblical scholars, religious follows and scientists discuss interesting topics.
I'm surrounded by many incredible Christians (most a bit different in beliefs) and I think the interpretation often reflects the character of the person. If people focus on the wrath of God and an exclusive heaven, than that probably reflects what they want on earth. If people focus on an unconditionally, inclusive loving God, completely selfless Jesus that's probably the standard they try to live by.
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Old 10-29-2017, 05:46 AM
 
2,826 posts, read 2,360,304 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
This is a thread to better understand each other's faith, and also to learn from each other and find common ground.

I would like all believers to participate and tell us the guidance provided by your faith that leads to morally good actions. Our Atheists friends are also welcome to participate and tell us if there any common morals.

Please know that this is NOT a hosing down contest.


I will start with mine with the a few points. Islam.
These are not in any particular order except for #1, which is always #1 in my faith.


1 - The strict belief in monotheism. There is ONLY ONE God so worship him alone.
2 - Do justice among people and do not do injustice to anyone. Be forgiving, be generous and be tolerant.
3 - Take care of your parents just as they took care of you when you were a baby.
4 - Give rights to women, children, and anyone who deserves it.
5 - Strictly forbidden to take the life of an innocent person.
6 - Avoid foul mouthing.
7 - Always be kind to orphan kids. And never forfeit their rights.
8 - Help the poor and needy whichever way you can.
9 - Avoid back biting and gossip.
10 - Save resources and don't waste.
11 - Don't insult anyone else God who they believe through their faith.
12 - Avoid cheating, lying, deceiving and scheming against others.
13 - Earn an honest living.
14 - Avoid Gambling, alcohol (recreational drugs etc) and pork meat.
15 - Live a life by staying in the middle path and avoid going into extremes in any direction.
16 - Avoid Hypocrisy
17 - Always be hopeful and never lose hope.
18 - You may think you could get away with a wrong doing against someone in this life, but there will be justice served to you on the doomsday. So make wise choices. There will be an accountability of your actions where there will be no where to run and nowhere to hide.
19 - If you commit a sin or make a mistake against God, then repent and do an equally good or a better good deed, and hope for the best.
If the sin/mistake was done against another person then you must ask forgiveness from the person and/or make it up for them to fix it.
20 - Absolutely avoid arrogance. Be meek and docile. Learn and apply knowledge (scientific, arts, social etc) that benefits humanity.


Now these only a few.
Whether a person claiming to be a Muslim lives by them or not is up to them?
Islam looks at how honestly have you tried within in your own means.
I'm sorely tempted to call you out on that. To show how many of the Muslims online seem to have only known the word ****, or how arrogant the book is when claiminhg to be the infallible teaching of Allah and the last true writing so nothing can come after it, or how hypocritical it is, soince it claims to be flawless yet condones the pravctice of abrogation, where earlier text is overwritten by later stuff. But I won't. Nope, definitely not.

My own religion is basically a syncretism. I've chosen to read up on several religions, mainly Taoism and Christianity, and follow their teachings. While I don't exactly make stuff up, I don't lknow that a statement of guidance is appropriate. I had a set of rules, but ultimately I realized the rules were exactly the problem, because the world reflects you, so the more rules you set up telling others what to do, the more restrictive, hypocritical, and judgemental you become.
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Old 10-29-2017, 07:22 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,083 posts, read 20,582,163 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumbo10 View Post
I watched some of the video. I'm not too interested in debating the bible as I'm not a big scripture guy. But I do find The Big Questions (on youtube) interesting too as they'll often have religious leaders, biblical scholars, religious follows and scientists discuss interesting topics.
I'm surrounded by many incredible Christians (most a bit different in beliefs) and I think the interpretation often reflects the character of the person. If people focus on the wrath of God and an exclusive heaven, than that probably reflects what they want on earth. If people focus on an unconditionally, inclusive loving God, completely selfless Jesus that's probably the standard they try to live by.
I do rather take what seems to be a different and opposite approach. Either the claims for Jesus, Gospels and Christianity are true, in which case we should try to live by that or they are not, in which case, we must regard that as man -made and no more valid than any other man -made codes.

And if under scrutony they fall short of the Other man -made codes, then they are not worthy of attention.

This means that all those interesting topics are best discussed from a humanist, logical and evidential view and Jesus, Gospels and Christianity should have no part in the discussion. It will only mislead us.

Of course, I'm assuming that the logic and evidence will not support Jesus, Gospel and Christianity but, as I have said before now, the debate is Over. The job now is countering the Christians telling everyone who will listen that they actually won the debate.
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Old 10-29-2017, 07:30 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,083 posts, read 20,582,163 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144 View Post
I'm sorely tempted to call you out on that. To show how many of the Muslims online seem to have only known the word ****, or how arrogant the book is when claiminhg to be the infallible teaching of Allah and the last true writing so nothing can come after it, or how hypocritical it is, soince it claims to be flawless yet condones the pravctice of abrogation, where earlier text is overwritten by later stuff. But I won't. Nope, definitely not.

My own religion is basically a syncretism. I've chosen to read up on several religions, mainly Taoism and Christianity, and follow their teachings. While I don't exactly make stuff up, I don't lknow that a statement of guidance is appropriate. I had a set of rules, but ultimately I realized the rules were exactly the problem, because the world reflects you, so the more rules you set up telling others what to do, the more restrictive, hypocritical, and judgemental you become.
I'd say you Called him nicely. And I agree that setting up rules (as absolutes) is going to be a problem. I won't turn this into an ethics debate, but not being dogmatic about man -made rules is the secret to making them work.

The Absolutes are of course what science can show and validate, and the problems that causes for the religions is that their speculations (regarded as divinely given truths, whetheer they realize that or not) are then regarded as immutable truths, and when science shows they are not, they have either to adapt (quitely and pretending it was what they said all along) or deny, in which case they spend the rest of their life lying to themselves and everyone else.

Going with the evidence and being willing to change your mind eliminates those problems. It's called Having Faith in nothing, belief in everything'.
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Old 10-29-2017, 07:35 AM
 
28,432 posts, read 11,521,721 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
I do rather take what seems to be a different and opposite approach. Either the claims for Jesus, Gospels and Christianity are true, in which case we should try to live by that or they are not, in which case, we must regard that as man -made and no more valid than any other man -made codes.

And if under scrutony they fall short of the Other man -made codes, then they are not worthy of attention.

This means that all those interesting topics are best discussed from a humanist, logical and evidential view and Jesus, Gospels and Christianity should have no part in the discussion. It will only mislead us.

Of course, I'm assuming that the logic and evidence will not support Jesus, Gospel and Christianity but, as I have said before now, the debate is Over. The job now is countering the Christians telling everyone who will listen that they actually won the debate.
either true or not true
black/white
right/wrong
your codes don't match my codes so our codes are, worst case scenario, equivalent
That last one is the single worst code ever.

hmmmm ... who tinks like that?

jesus, who cares if he was real or not at this point. Jesus is a humanist but lived 2000 years ago. Jesus taught there are things more important than death. He is right, things like dignity. he taught to treat your neighbor with courtesy. he is right again. he taught to help others but that untimely we are responsible for our actions, right again.

jesus is a humanist that didn't have the information we have today.

oh yeah, pretty darn smart for saying "I and the universe are one in the same thing" without a lick of data.

did I tell you that he didn't die, wake up, and fly away?
People that teach that are dead wrong but they keep resurrecting such a silly notion.
not that it matters, either he is all right or all wrong for you.
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Old 10-29-2017, 08:05 AM
 
678 posts, read 427,644 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
I do rather take what seems to be a different and opposite approach. Either the claims for Jesus, Gospels and Christianity are true, in which case we should try to live by that or they are not, in which case, we must regard that as man -made and no more valid than any other man -made codes.

And if under scrutony they fall short of the Other man -made codes, then they are not worthy of attention.

This means that all those interesting topics are best discussed from a humanist, logical and evidential view and Jesus, Gospels and Christianity should have no part in the discussion. It will only mislead us.

Of course, I'm assuming that the logic and evidence will not support Jesus, Gospel and Christianity but, as I have said before now, the debate is Over. The job now is countering the Christians telling everyone who will listen that they actually won the debate.
I totally get where you're coming from. I can also see why some people need a belief in God and I don't want to take that away from them, unless I feel their belief is pretty extreme and it's not benefiting mankind.
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Old 10-29-2017, 09:14 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,083 posts, read 20,582,163 times
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Right. So how do we accommodate those who believe different things? Have a system based on what all generally agree, and let them have their own private beliefs, but don't try to force them on others.

Science and humanism is pretty much what we all do, given cultural variants which is all part of the fun. I can anticipate a lot of protests about different ethical rules, but I know what the answer to that is, and it is because we are still backward and do not understand our nature and so cannot reconcile human instinct and some human ethical rules which I have to say are still screwed up by traditional mores that are, I also have to say, based on religion.

This humaist norm is thus a level playing field which is pretty much agreed globally, today (give or take dictatorships) and this gives everyone a fair shake and is not as our Pal Arach persistently and mistakenly insists 'forcing' anything on anybody, but I'l say no more as I am bound by a sacred oath not to say anything negative about him until next fall.
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Old 10-29-2017, 02:54 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
17,071 posts, read 10,876,103 times
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Why rules are ALWAYS secondary to basic principle;
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Old 10-29-2017, 06:03 PM
 
28,432 posts, read 11,521,721 times
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Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
Why rules are ALWAYS secondary to basic principle;
I kind of agree.

equal does not mean fair.

why's are second to that.
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