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Old 11-27-2017, 10:12 AM
 
3,409 posts, read 1,245,860 times
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a co-worker recently quit her job and went with her husband as a FT volunteers at WHQ of JW.
She and her husband are working with an in-house developed system that has over a hundred IT developers writing code.

She wrote to me,

"So it's not exactly a foreign missionary assignment, but the work we'll be doing supports everything from international construction to disaster relief work. So, I'm excited to get to contribute to it.

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witne...wick-projects/"


To OP, whether JW is in decline or not but I would appreciate any effort by any group that helps in disaster relief work. I am not a follower of JW or a Christian but I appreciate the stance taken by my fellow worker.
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Old 11-27-2017, 11:14 AM
 
34,137 posts, read 8,770,583 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by battlingtops View Post
There is some truth in that but still the cult has a lot of responsibility. Yes people decided to follow Jim Jones but ultimately he was responsible for their death. From my own experience the internet is the single most thing that has helped people find out the truth about the JW <church>. Before that there was little in the way of connecting to anyone who knew their history. Now you can do a little digging on line and find out the truth of how the <church> started. From the wheat scandal to CT Russell and his divorce and then to Judge Ruthaford who took over the cult almost exactly as Miscavideg took over Scientology, by legal force. All the dates that were wrong and how they predicted the end of the world so many times. How they have never been right on anything they predicted.
That's a thought. I never even bothered much about the Origins of the JW. because they are Christian and (for me) they stand and fall on Christianity - not on how well the origins of the sect or denomination stands up to scrutiny. Let's face it, while Luther had a good case, neither side come out with very clean hands, and anglican protestantism (from which the American Christianity is derived, once they got shot of a royal Head of the church as poart of the revolution) as aprt of God's plan makes on think that he has a rather imnoral way of thinking.

So one could argue that a new Christian sect based on some college drop out getting the idea he's the twin brother of Jesus, shooting hos college teachers and recruiting a harem of born again ex -pole -dancers as hookers for Christ. If that's God's plan - who are we to judge?

Btw a tip, if you are using Red, don't; it's reserved for Moderator use.

No. The credibility of the Bible and mostly of the Gospel story - not the sectarian interpretation, or indeed the origins of the cult (though I make an exception for the Mormons and scientology. And the Moonies.. sue me ) is what I argue on. Especially as it's all I know
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Old 11-27-2017, 11:32 AM
 
Location: WV and Eastport, ME
10,245 posts, read 10,354,354 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post

<snip>

Btw a tip, if you are using Red, don't; it's reserved for Moderator use.

<snip>
Those were my edits in red. He was using another "c" word for the JW church.
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Old 11-27-2017, 11:33 AM
 
34,137 posts, read 8,770,583 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
a co-worker recently quit her job and went with her husband as a FT volunteers at WHQ of JW.
She and her husband are working with an in-house developed system that has over a hundred IT developers writing code.

She wrote to me,

"So it's not exactly a foreign missionary assignment, but the work we'll be doing supports everything from international construction to disaster relief work. So, I'm excited to get to contribute to it.

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witne...wick-projects/"


To OP, whether JW is in decline or not but I would appreciate any effort by any group that helps in disaster relief work. I am not a follower of JW or a Christian but I appreciate the stance taken by my fellow worker.
A very good point old mate.

Charitable and needed assistance -work is always welcome, no matter whom it comes from (within limits). On the other hand it Never validates the religion or whatever, or counts even as much as a lawyers character -reference apologetic for an accused client, when they come under criticism, and it certainly does nothing whatsoever to validate whatever denomination of whatever religion they belong to or whatever dogmas they argue. Nothing whatsoever.
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Old 11-27-2017, 12:13 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,070 posts, read 8,532,841 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Charitable and needed assistance -work is always welcome, no matter whom it comes from (within limits). On the other hand it Never validates the religion or whatever, or counts even as much as a lawyers character -reference apologetic for an accused client, when they come under criticism, and it certainly does nothing whatsoever to validate whatever denomination of whatever religion they belong to or whatever dogmas they argue. Nothing whatsoever.
One must remember that all sorts of organizations with questionable motives undertake charity work as a PR ploy. The tobacco industry for example is well known for contributing to charity and supporting good works to improve their image and to deflect from the tremendous harms of encouraging and promoting smoking.

I do not think that all religious organizations necessarily see their charitable work as a "ploy" or even that it is one ... however, whenever the concrete harms of religious ideation are pointed out, a common deflection is to imply they are beyond criticism because of all the necessary good they do in the world. While there are specific religious organizations that constitute exceptions that prove my point, most of what religion does is NOT actual charity, but the activities of a private club, mainly around group ritual and doctrinal reinforcement, and around recruitment. Only a relative minority of funds go to actual, no-strings-attached help for needy / indigent / disadvantaged / persecuted persons out in society who are not members of the group.

In any case, there is no evidence that all charity work would stop or be greatly inhibited if religious organizations weren't around to sponsor or endorse them. I believe that generous people would find a way to make a difference. The church doesn't have a monopoly on the concept, and there's no evidence that the church has some uniquely salubrious effect on generosity and selflessness. The church is merely in the right place at the right time to be a logical rallying-point for some charitable work. Nothing more nor less.
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Old 11-27-2017, 03:17 PM
 
387 posts, read 185,548 times
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It's worth noting that the OP attempts to depict decline in popularity, not decline in the thing itself.
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Old 11-27-2017, 04:40 PM
 
34,137 posts, read 8,770,583 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy View Post
Those were my edits in red. He was using another "c" word for the JW church.
Ok Thanks for then hud.
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Old 11-27-2017, 05:04 PM
 
34,137 posts, read 8,770,583 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
One must remember that all sorts of organizations with questionable motives undertake charity work as a PR ploy. The tobacco industry for example is well known for contributing to charity and supporting good works to improve their image and to deflect from the tremendous harms of encouraging and promoting smoking.

I do not think that all religious organizations necessarily see their charitable work as a "ploy" or even that it is one ... however, whenever the concrete harms of religious ideation are pointed out, a common deflection is to imply they are beyond criticism because of all the necessary good they do in the world. While there are specific religious organizations that constitute exceptions that prove my point, most of what religion does is NOT actual charity, but the activities of a private club, mainly around group ritual and doctrinal reinforcement, and around recruitment. Only a relative minority of funds go to actual, no-strings-attached help for needy / indigent / disadvantaged / persecuted persons out in society who are not members of the group.

In any case, there is no evidence that all charity work would stop or be greatly inhibited if religious organizations weren't around to sponsor or endorse them. I believe that generous people would find a way to make a difference. The church doesn't have a monopoly on the concept, and there's no evidence that the church has some uniquely salubrious effect on generosity and selflessness. The church is merely in the right place at the right time to be a logical rallying-point for some charitable work. Nothing more nor less.
That's true, too. Which is why I have the dictum "You cannot buy the truth with free soup". That is, charitable work is always praiseworthy. Within limits. As you say, If tobacco companies do charitable work just to improve their image, One must think seriously about accepting it. The "... (some GBS play..Major Barbara...that's it...)" dilemma - could they accept funds from an arms manufacturer? Is charitable assistance acceptable from someone who belongs to an organization that is (or should be under scrutiny? Would I accept a donation from Scientology to publish my book? No. There are limits.

That aside, if one does accept charity, help or free soup from a Christian denomination, good for them. Nice Job. All power to their arm. Does it get any favour while investigating what they have got up to? No.

Does it get them a scrap of credit when assessing their doctrines? Not a bit.

Still want to do the charity? You do? Well Kudos for them. Ok, I know, tracts and sermons and prayers is often a non -optional extra. But until (and unless) secular society has something to offer as an equal alternative, what can I say?
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Old 11-27-2017, 05:16 PM
 
Location: minnesota
5,219 posts, read 1,657,155 times
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The Watchtower's idea of charity work is converting people.
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Old 11-27-2017, 05:20 PM
 
Location: minnesota
5,219 posts, read 1,657,155 times
Reputation: 1822
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
a co-worker recently quit her job and went with her husband as a FT volunteers at WHQ of JW.
She and her husband are working with an in-house developed system that has over a hundred IT developers writing code.

She wrote to me,

"So it's not exactly a foreign missionary assignment, but the work we'll be doing supports everything from international construction to disaster relief work. So, I'm excited to get to contribute to it.

https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witne...wick-projects/"


To OP, whether JW is in decline or not but I would appreciate any effort by any group that helps in disaster relief work. I am not a follower of JW or a Christian but I appreciate the stance taken by my fellow worker.
That link is the new headquarters. They get people to come and volunteer to help. Your coworker is being used just like the example the OP gave of his FIL who quit his good job to serve full time because the end was to come in 1975.
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