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Just one more thing that makes religion -- in this case, JWs -- dangerous to a civilzied society.
Oh sure, you can forgive a pedophile -- and then the pedophile will go right back out there to molest some other kid.
How many times do you keep "exercising forgiveness" before going to the police to get the creep off the streets? How many lives have to be ruined by these perverts before, gee, I guess the elders better do something like, uhm, call the police.
Just because you forgive someone doesn't mean they're absolved of having to serve out a punishment of some kind. And since pedophiles do NOT "get better" and stop molesting children, every time one is forgiven and sent back out into the world, you and your religion become partly responsible for the next child who has a big adult hand on their private parts ... get it?
Sure, we can sit around and wait for God's justice -- but why anyone would put even an inkling of trust in that monstrous tyrant is beyond me. God has NEVER given a damn about humanity's inhumanity. The only time God has ever displayed "justice" is when some poor sod disobeyed him. THAT is the only thing he cared about. In fact, pedophilia isn't even TALKED about in any holy book ... it's not even considered a sin, for crying out loud. What religious rule did a pedophile break? On what grounds would God even deliver justice? The law has to exist first before it can be broken. According to any religious text, pedophilia is neither a sin or a crime, so there's no REASON for God to either punish or discipline the pedophile.
And please don't tell me that comes from mainstream religion. Unless you worship a completely different God than the Christians, it's the same God.
The ONLY way what I said isn't true is if the JWs aren't really Christians. Although I do find it somewhat funny that the JWs have created a cult within a cult. LOL! Talk about a double-envelopment. *snicker*
But oh well ... at least JWs keep to themselves most of the time which is why I usually leave you alone, kjw47. However, that bit about condemning war and the pacificism bit struck a nerve. So too did the idea of "exercising forgiveness" with pedophiles -- knowing as I said that they don't magically get better, not even with therapy. Pedophilia is pretty much incurable. Simply forgiving them only ensures some other kid will be lured into the creep's bedroom or basement, and ... I'll leave the rest to your imagination.
Then should we just blow their heads off like all the division causing govts Accomplish--civilized huh--55 million dead in ww2 alone-- 300,000 Iraqi army men wiped off the earth for WMD that they did not have--what did we say--oops?--show me civilized. Millions of native American Indians slaughtered for land and gold--allowed by the blind guides who claim to be Christian. then turn and teach lies about it in their schools= pure satan. And many in their darkness try to say America was started by Christians.
I know100% for sure---JW parents are counciled to go to the police if they deem it necessary.
The bible is clear--it takes 2 witnesses to prove a truth--in paedophilia there are never 2 witnesses. They would NEVER get the opportunity to be alone with a youngster again if they were accused.
You're damn right you won't ever see me condemn it. No, I don't glorify war or claim that most conflicts are even justified ones.
But SOMEtimes they are.
What's funny is how you sit here in a well-protected nation far away from any potential adversaries and complain about war -- because that is your PRIVILEGE.
I can guarantee you that there are hundreds of millions living in oppressive places that would give their right arm for NATO or the United States to come swooping in with our huge military and wipe out their oppressors.
Like it or not, the pacifism of the Jehovah's Witnesses is an evolutionary dead-end. Any belief system that refuses to fight for its own existence is doomed to be wiped out, relegated to a footnote in the history books. As the old saying goes: "Evil triumphs when good men do nothing."
The fact is, your right and even your ability to condemn warfare is made possible by OTHER people who fight and die to protect that right -- which is why I find pacifistic religions rather despicable. They ride on the coattails of those who ARE willing to fight for your continued existence. Keep in mind that Jehovah's Witnesses were one of the groups Hitler threw into the gas chambers. What would have happened to you and your family if 12 million Americans did not take up arms to defeat Hitler? Please, tell me .. I'd really LOVE to know what you think would have happened to you and your family when Hitler found his way to the United States and discovered a totally pacifistic nation that refused to fight for itself. I'm all ears.
So no, I'm not going to sit around condemning those who fought and continue to fight against tyranny, oppression, terrorism, and extremism on both sides of the political aisle. There are people out there right now violating your precious JW moral code so you can HAVE a precious moral code. People who are ensuring that your Kingdom Hall isn't blown to Mars by an ISIS bomb.
Now, I'm not saying every war is a good war or that every war is fought for good reasons. However, MOST wars fought by America in the last 100 years were justified. The second Iraq war was not justified. The Spanish-American War was not justified. The Mexican-American War was not justified.
But all the rest of them were. Yes, EVEN Vietnam. Americans were over there fighting for the freedom of others, something that is almost, but not quite, uniquely American. In Korea and Vietnam, Americans fought to keep a hundred million people from being consumed by the oppressive communist juggernaut; I can guarantee you that not a single person living in South Korea today says, "I wish those Americans would've minded their own business and stayed pacisfists because, gee, I dream of the day when I can be ruled from Pyongyang and be a slave to the Kim dynasty. Yeah, that's what I want!"
Even the War of 1812 was justified because the British were stopping American ships, pulling American sailors off those ships, and enslaving them on British ships. Again, it was a fight for the freedom of American citizens.
So, by all means, condemn war and remain a complete pacisfist. It's your right in this country. But just remember that you have that right because OTHER people are willing to fight and die in order to protect that right.
Oh please. It's been "coming soon" since Rome fell 1500 years ago. These dire warnings of JW predictions that have been wrong again and again and again is what is known in the computer business as "vaporware." In other words, it's *always* "coming soon" but everyone knows it'll never arrive.
Oh sure, the trinity religions will blow each other's heads off. Because that's what religions do. Why? Because religious adherence is absolutist. There is no middle ground therefore no grounds for compromise exists. One side would have to completely and totally capitulate to the other.
And ... since JWs won't fight, they would obediently march off to the concentration camps just as they did during the Holocaust where the JW religion would become extinct. And the world will go on as it has before, none of the JW predictions will have happened, and 500 years later, only serious theological historians will have ever known your religion ever existed at all.
*shrug*
That's reality. Babylon the Great is a myth. There is no such place anymore -- and Babylon hasn't existed for thousands of years. No, Iraq is not Babylon, either. It is Iraq. It's just astounding to me that anyone can keep going back for more predictions when the JWs have failed utterly countless times previous at being right. How many times does a person have to get burned by false prophecies before they realize they're in a scammy cult and perhaps need to leave it ... ?
At the tower of Babel--God sent them to other parts of the earth, confused their languages--took all the pagan false god worshipping practices with them. Those things are alive and well to this day in the false religions and world celebrations--false religion = Babylon the great---its about to fall by the hands of the 7 headed beast. This is 99% of all religion on earth.
Because people can talk about sports and entertainment without hating each other. Politics and religion bring out the worst in people. I see it every time I'm on this board. People can't bring up these topics without engaging in aggressive generalizations and personal attacks.
Have you ever seen Philadelphia Eagles or Oakland/LV Raiders fans?
Have you ever seen Philadelphia Eagles or Oakland/LV Raiders fans?
People die at soccer matches-- more and more violent events occurring in usa over sports. I like sports but I wont buy their things. They do not deserve 30 million a year--the fan gets stuck with the bill. The president of the usa-450,000 a year in control of nuclear weapons, in control of armies. in control of life or death of others--seems more important than a touchdown or homerun. What is wrong in that picture?
In fact, most religions toe the legal line. JW's have a character of willingly donning a Martyrs' hat every time they run foul of the law. The Journalists's attention -getting Take on that is amusing, but by the same logic that justice Stone (1) uses, the losers of the Hovind fraud, Kim Davis and Dover cases ought to get endowments because of test cases that clarified the law. And that in fact the JW's won a number of their cases doesn't alter that fact.
I'm not sure that in fact American Atheists ought not to be first in line for such an endowment, since they have initiated (accompanied by howls of protest from the poor persecuted Christians) a number of clarifying cases.
I don't want to overdo the analogy, but atheists have struggled against extreme prejudice -and are still doing so, and are in Muslim countries being jailed or killed for it - and here we are, expending time and effort to help people to understand the huge con -trick that is being pulled on them, and nobody suggests that WE should get an endowment for it.
(1) and I note his honesty and dedication to upholding free speech and individual rights, e.g in noting the show trial aspects of the Nurenberg trials (though the emotional reaction would be that the Nazis deserved no rights), and would probably have seen the same in the trial of Saddam Hassan, which does not make me a Saddam supporter, as one political criminal at least might have suggested.
Some people miss the point. If others use the legal system to defend against prejudice, bigotry and unjust treatment it's a-ok or doing a public service . If Witnesses use the same legal system it's martyrdom or hyprocrisy or <fill in the bigotry blank>. When Jesus said his disciples are to be no part of the world it means avoiding social and political divisions of the day. It doesn't mean that his disciples would not otherwise be peaceful, productive, and law abiding citizens. Citizens who have the right to use the legal system.
You don't find Witnesses using the legal system to remove the 10 commandments from public buildings, removing God from the pledge of allegiance or the phrase "In God we Trust" or nativity scenes from public places. And you also don't find Witnesses using the legal or political process to ban others from seeking rights they feel they are entitled to, same sex marriage for example. Atheists and Christian groups on the other hand do. I'm sorry if you still don't get it but some people will.
Yes JWs are in decline. They have preached the end of the world in 1874, 1914,1916,1925,1951,1975,2000. I was a member and can clearly recall the "stay alive till 75" when the borg said it would be commended to sell off everything and put the short remaining time into the preaching work. My father inlaw quit his factory job and moved to "where the need was great" [that is JW speak for where they need more door knockers]. I can remember many people moving to the country and quitting jobs to be out of the city before the end. They had just enough money to live till 75 or 76. After that date came and went the idiots at the top said they never said that. LOL They put everything in print. "The published timetable resulting from this independent study gives the date of man's creation as 4026 B.C.E. According to this trustworthy Bible chronology six thousand years from man's creation will end in 1975, and the seventh period of a thousand years of human history will begin in the fall of 1975 C.E. So six thousand years of man's existence on earth will soon be up, yes, within this generation. So in not many years within our own generation we are reaching what Jehovah God could view as the seventh day of man's existence. How appropriate it would be for Jehovah God to make of this coming seventh period of a thousand years a sabbath period of rest and release, a great Jubilee sabbath for the proclaiming of liberty throughout the earth to all its inhabitants! This would be most timely for mankind. It would also be most fitting on God's part, for, remember, mankind has yet ahead of it what the last book of the Holy Bible speaks of as the reign of Jesus Christ over earth for a thousand years, the millennial reign of Christ. It would not be by mere chance or accident but would be according to the loving purpose of Jehovah God for the reign of Jesus Christ, the 'Lord of the Sabbath,' to run parallel with the seventh millennium of man's existence." Life Everlasting in Freedom of the Sons of God 1966 pp.26-30
"Does God's rest day parallel the time man has been on earth since his creation? Apparently so. In what year, then, would the first 6,000 years of man's existence and also the first 6,000 years of Gods rest day come to an end? The year 1975. It means that within a relatively few years we will witness the fulfilment of the remaining prophecies that have to do with the "time of the end"." Awake! 1966 Oct 8 pp.19-20
ex-JW here...I can only wish the current JW's will wake up. They're in a horrible nightmare they cannot wake up from.
But being an ex-JW and also if I speak anything against them, just like Scientologists and other <cut> religions, you are Satan's helper, an "Apostate" and rejected like the plague.
With that said it's quite scary; if you've watched Leah Remini's Scientology shows it's scary how much JW's are alike when it comes to controlling members' behavior, information, thoughts and thinking. I can write a novel on how it was on a daily basis basically being critical of everything and questioning everything you can think of every moment of your life. Even though I've been out for over 20 years a lot of those behaviors still persist.
Last edited by mensaguy; 02-28-2018 at 12:24 PM..
Reason: We don't call churches "cults."
Prince was an example of how mistaken JW are. Someone who secretly seemed to be spiritual , while being on both sides of the fence with very very worldly music.
sounds like most evangelical churches that preach FEAR and HATE to their congregations.
Fear....yes, I certainly remember that from my youth. I wasn't raised in this particular religion, but one other very conservative one with lots of fear. Not so much hate....but boatloads of fear.
My wife and I were at home on a Saturday morning many years ago, and there was a knock on the door. This guy was at the door pushing the JW thing. I was polite to him, but stepped outside for a second rather than let him inside the house. I noticed he had two young kids in the backseat of his car, all dressed up in their "church" clothes.
All I remember thinking, is how sad these kids are bring driven around in the backseat of this car on a beautiful summer day when they should be playing at the park as a family, enjoying gods creation and a nice swingset/jungle gym, or trails in the woods to hike on with a family picnic thrown in for good measure.
We've got things so messed up in this world, and while religion isn't the cause of all our ills....it certainly is a HUGE contributing factor. "God" is as much in my backyard, my car, my place of employment as he is in your big expensive church building. When I learned that, my life became much more enjoyable and fulfilling. You can't really help others much until you lose the fear and get your own head screwed on straight.
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In fact, most religions toe the legal line. JW's have a character of willingly donning a Martyrs' hat every time they run foul of the law. The Journalists's attention -getting Take on that is amusing, but by the same logic that justice Stone (1) uses, the losers of the Hovind fraud, Kim Davis and Dover cases ought to get endowments because of test cases that clarified the law. And that in fact the JW's won a number of their cases doesn't alter that fact.
