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Old 12-07-2017, 06:04 AM
 
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I think there are ways of assessing one's personal morals but certain things here are off-topic and if we discuss current issues, it'll only muddy the waters.

But what if we look at how morals have changed for the better in a way that the vast majority of people in our society agree upon.

I think most would agree:

Owning another individual and forcing them to work is immoral.

Not allowing equal voting rights for women is immoral.

What else could be added to the list?



What roles have religions played a part? What roles have religious doctrines played a part?
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Old 12-07-2017, 06:43 AM
 
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As a kneejerk reaction, I'd say a reactionary one - at doctrine -deciding level anyway. At the same time at grassroots level, they have done well in pushing for education, hospitals and caring for the needy.

There have been some notable plusses - religion had a part to play in the emergence of democracy, but the religious authorities tended to side with Monarchial rights and regarded the reformers as outsiders.

While those using the Bible to justify slavery did it no credit, there were many believers whp worked for freedom.

But what I'm seeing all the time is that religion itself does little to help but there are many who see clearly what is right to be done, whether they are religious or not. And when everyone is indoctrinated with religion, many of them will reference their religion as the inspiration for moral action, and the religion in due course will be happy to take the credit for what it did not help and even opposed.

While doing Buddhism (as well with ASEAN Buddhist-and Hindu- history), I saw almost as many beggars to the furlong as we have here here in the UK. What did the Snaga ..I mean Sangha...do to help? Nothing that I could see. They went out to receive donations and they ate them themselves. Indeed, a guesthouse owner in Srilanka (who, because I was doing Buddhism, got me to visit the scion of the original Bodhi tree) muttered that he wouldn't invite a single monk to any donation of his but rather the beggars.

So, religion is there to serve its' own ends, not people. Democracy, despite its' many faults, does more for the people than rulers or churches. If Peter the great worked for Russia to advance, it was so that it could fight enemies with its' own weapons, not to improve the lot of the poor. If the churches take a keen interest in education, it isn't out of concern for teaching kids to read or write, but to ensure they are religiously indoctrinated from the first.

So, wot I'm saying is - that it is rational humanism that sees what is right, using critical reasoning, and pushes for it, whether within religion or without. And religion is more likely to fight the reforms - and this is still going on today, and then try to grab the credit when the right prevails.
Time we stopped letting them take the credit.
Time we saw where morality really comes from.
Time we stopped religions exploit us for their own good while pretending that it is for ours.

And I hope they strip Crefflo of every cent and lock him up for the rest of his life. And there's a lot more like him on the list.
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Old 12-07-2017, 06:17 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
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Morality is emergent from societal interactions and so to the extent it has evolved and improved it is because society has moved it along.

Now churches are part of society and to the extent they participate in society they had a role. Not always a positive one, but a role. For example if you regard marriage equality as better than marriage inequality then the role of many churches was to oppose that, so it was not a positive contribution to societal morality.

But I reject the claims of many churches to be brokers of some superior morality; that exists entirely in their own imagination. The notion that morality wanes when the influence of churches wanes is absurd.
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Old 12-07-2017, 07:28 PM
 
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Thanks, I was purposefully keeping the OP open-ended but I agree with those responses.
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Old 12-08-2017, 02:56 AM
 
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Humanity still has a long way to go to be equal to the morality of God , as you look at the selfishness acceptance of terrorism , and bias divisions , and the hatred , and even the ridicule of sexual harassment in the leaders and fake accusations against the leaders is so bizarre beyond any sort of love which would come from God ..... Still humanity has come a long way in the last four thousand years of religion which God only knows of any improvement in love
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Old 12-08-2017, 03:08 AM
 
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I can relate to that..as an ideal of perfection (of which Biblegod and inded most of the others fall far short) to which we aspire. It's a dream we probably will never realize, and it might well turn out to be no more than a dream even if we could realize it. But I certainly see that the progress that has been made is down to the best in humanist thinking and is not to be credited to any religion, let alone their man -created gods.
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Old 12-08-2017, 03:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumbo10 View Post
I think there are ways of assessing one's personal morals but certain things here are off-topic and if we discuss current issues, it'll only muddy the waters.

But what if we look at how morals have changed for the better in a way that the vast majority of people in our society agree upon...

What roles have religions played a part? What roles have religious doctrines played a part?
Moses is honored in the US Capitol building as being one of the most significant law-makers ever to live.
Some basics that might be taken for granted that we got from Moses:
1. Don't kill
2. Don't steal
3. Don't lie
4. Don't cheat
5. Honor your parents (generally, parents are each of ours first morality teachers)


As religion has evolved, the moral laws have evolved. Jesus (who was likely greatly influenced by Buddhism) explained that the old laws were ok - but there were higher laws. IE: Old laws say, "Don't cheat on your wife" New law he suggested was "Don't even lust after any other woman - guard your thoughts not just your actions."
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Old 12-08-2017, 04:36 PM
 
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hljc View Post
Humanity still has a long way to go to be equal to the morality of God , as you look at the selfishness acceptance of terrorism , and bias divisions , and the hatred , and even the ridicule of sexual harassment in the leaders and fake accusations against the leaders is so bizarre beyond any sort of love which would come from God ..... Still humanity has come a long way in the last four thousand years of religion which God only knows of any improvement in love
God repeatedly ordered babies and children to be hacked to death with swords. God once drowned the entire planet. God condones and supports slavery. Humans have outlawed genocide and slavery worldwide. God could take some morality lesson from humans.
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Old 12-08-2017, 04:51 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tired of the Nonsense View Post
God repeatedly ordered babies and children to be hacked to death with swords. God once drowned the entire planet. God condones and supports slavery. Humans have outlawed genocide and slavery worldwide. God could take some morality lesson from humans.
No, it was people doing that. People are the hands of God - for good or bad.

The problem with so many discussions about God is often God is defined in ways that are not true.
Buddha, Jesus & many others explained that God is not some external observable thing but “the kingdom (realm/experience) of God is within you.” When you realize how it couldn’t be any other way, you’re left with responsibility- which is why many would rather look to a sky-daddy to blame.

God is defined as love. The word is like GOoD - which is potential in us all, but often is revealed through “bad.”
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Old 12-08-2017, 06:00 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSoul View Post
No, it was people doing that. People are the hands of God - for good or bad.

The problem with so many discussions about God is often God is defined in ways that are not true.
Buddha, Jesus & many others explained that God is not some external observable thing but “the kingdom (realm/experience) of God is within you.” When you realize how it couldn’t be any other way, you’re left with responsibility- which is why many would rather look to a sky-daddy to blame.

God is defined as love. The word is like GOoD - which is potential in us all, but often is revealed through “bad.”
Are we talking about the biblical God? If so, you need to do some reading. The mythical biblical God has killed more people than humans. He killed thousands for just asking for meat in place of manna.
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