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Ecellent eample of the problem. Anything you don't like call it crap, garbage or ither wise blow it away - with not even an effort to argue why, which Jeff to do him credit, does.
And your rules seem to be to argue against anything a Bible believing Christian posts here, with vague counter points that really offer nothing specific to debate. And zero backing support. Typical.
Whether or not what you say is true here is ... as BaptistFundie would say ... only your opinion.
Right?
Besides, I've written massive posts debunking damn near every word you've posted -- and it doesn't matter.
We're supposed to just "disagree" even when you're FACTUALLY incorrect -- which means it's not just an opinion.
To claim one particular response is "typical" is .. well .. typical. Claiming WE are the ones failing to answer questions is, again ... typical.
A good point.. but not good enough. There is a difference between Real social problems -such as are dealt with by the law - or should be - and the additional list of supposed sins according to religion. As to porn shops - the law Long since had them boarded up so as not to offend the decent citizens who slaver over the sexy bits of the TV shows. And a convicted sex offender next door - isn't he less of a threat that the one next door who hasn't been found and convicted yet? No, I would not take action against them myself, and I rather have a problem with those self -appointed vigilante committees of public safety who decide the Law needs a bit of voluntary assistance.
Unfortunately, Transponder, Christians, at least the male ones, have a tremendous problem with pornography. And like drugs, if they will pay for it, no law will make it go away.
From a Christian pastor way back in 2004 after he heard 50% of Christian men engage in viewing pornography:
Quote:
Certainly half the men in my church couldn’t have a problem with porn. Most the men in our body of 600 are in their late 30s to early 40s, married, and the father of little ones. They have successful careers making good money and are involved in ministry. I couldn’t picture so many of these men I sit next to every Sunday leering at porn.
Wanting to prove the numbers wrong, in the spring of 2004 I approached the leadership of our church and asked if we could survey the men on the topic of pornography. Our numbers will be different; “half” can’t be true here, I thought. Of those who responded, 25 percent had looked at porn within the past 30 days, 44 percent within six months, and 61 percent within the year. The real statistic is probably higher; I heard later that a number of men didn’t fill out the survey “because they were afraid of how it would be used.”
The Barna Group, a Christian statistical study group, made another startling announcement just two years ago (Jan. 2016):
Quote:
Half of youth pastors and 37 percent of pastors have visited a website they knew was pornographic, though they didn’t necessarily respond to or engage with it.
Another 46 percent of youth pastors and 37 percent of pastors have flipped through adult TV channels or movies, and 30 percent of youth pastors and 12 percent of pastors have searched for porn on social media.
About a quarter of youth pastors (27%) and pastors (23%) have obtained printed porn, like a magazine.
And you are the one who complains about our tone - as I said - but it's all good, Jeff. You are probably driving hundreds away from your type of Christianity. And I thought we answered all your posts if not utterly demolished what you posted. Not that I need to when you pretty much say here that you will never concede anything we say because you despise us. And you repeat the ol attempt to do a deal. We must play according to your rules and you'll listen.
Jeff, your rules seem to be poor argument, back to front reasoning and a nice line in double standards. If those are required to get you to listen, I'll stick with things the way they are, and I'll just let you discredit your own position, with just a helping hand.
The problem for most Christians is they think they themselves LOOK better if they can point the finger at those who are "not" Christian, or those of us who say we are Jesus followers but refuse to beat those who aren't over the head with a Bible, but rather recognize the Bible has a lot of problems because of the multiple authors (some even within the same book) and the editing that is obvious to any unbiased casual reader.
Because there is no introspection among evangelicals, just outward finger pointing, they no longer have any Good News to share with anyone. And that's what makes them morally bankrupt.
And the reason none of them can change their beliefs is because they haven't really made a commitment to Jesus in their hearts, just their heads. In the HEART, Jesus makes a difference in the "renewing of our minds," to see we haven't a moral leg to stand on compared to anyone else. All we have is a desire to share the mercy and forgiveness we have been shown---and that only by invitation, not jamming it down someone's throat.
Last edited by Wardendresden; 12-28-2017 at 11:34 PM..
Thank you. When I replied to Jeff, I already supposed that he saw porn and sex (unless rubber stamped as "God approved" as something he could use to put me in a position of 'wanting to Ban it' so as to give him an excuse to claim that he's only doing the same as me - wanting to ban stuff he finds offensive.
In fact, what people get up to or like to watch what other people get up to, is their own affair - so long as the law and the golden rule isn't broken. So he missestimated me (as Dubhya might put it}, in supposing I'd share his Christian disapproval of any sex that the church frowned upon. As he might missestimate a heck of a lot of Churchgoers' private inclinations.
Consent is the only moral there which is why rape is wrong. As to the Law - at one time porn was illegal and the hypocritical daily press weighed in raging about the 'Tide of filth". Then the Authorities realized they were fighting a losing battle and quietly decriminalized it. Overnight half a world of sex offenders became perfectly decent (well you know.. ) citizens. I'm not going into an apologetic for porn and poledancers, but this is just part of the "Bankruptcy of Evangelical Christianity' and in fact religions in general. They don't see these sort of problems as about people without legal rights, or who are being exploited (1) but as problems of moral outrage foisted on us by religions.
(1) without consent. "Sexploitation" was another buzzword used to invoke indignant disapproval. Doing a job even if just to make a living (which of us would do a stroke of work if we didn't get paid for it?) or buying a product you want is 'Exploitation' by the business owner to make money. So what, whether it's selling internet games or Internet porn? The Moral thing is a red herring used to lead the people around by the nose.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 12-29-2017 at 05:50 AM..
Another great display of atheist morality. Here we have someone who actually took time to stalk me in other forums to dig up a completely unrelated post in a sad attempt to make me look bad. In other words, The gas tank is empty so you have to resort to personal attacks. All you did here was prove my points. Thank you.
Glad you are back. Please take a look at my post #560. I would be interested in trying to change the tone of the conversation. I will trust you if you trust me.
Anything good that happens = god's plan.
Anything bad is the devil, yet, also god's plan.
Anything they do wrong, only god can judge.
Anything done "wrong" to them = persecution.
And in the warped atheist world
Anything good that happens - "Good" is a subjective open for reinterpretation in every generation
Anything bad that happens - Ummm well, we have no explanation why there are bad people
Anything they do wrong - Well yeah, since we all end up as worm food, it technically doesn't matter if you do wrong or good. Bonus - Unless you do something spectacular in this life, you are just one of millions that will become dust in the wind and forgotten by the next generation.
Anthing done "wrong" to them - just blame it on Christians. They should be blamed for everything.
Anything good that happens - "Good" is a subjective open for reinterpretation in every generation
Anything bad that happens - Ummm well, we have no explanation why there are bad people
Anything they do wrong - Well yeah, since we all end up as worm food, it technically doesn't matter if you do wrong or good. Bonus - Unless you do something spectacular in this life, you are just one of millions that will become dust in the wind and forgotten by the next generation.
Anthing done "wrong" to them - just blame it on Christians. They should be blamed for everything.
Actually the accurate counterpoint is:
Anything good that happens -- and yes that can often be subjective in the particulars, but who cares -- is a good thing. To be integrated into our understanding so we can improve our quality of life.
Anything bad that happens -- is a bad thing. Same response as "good that happens" above.
Anything we do wrong (or right) - is our responsibility.
Anything done wrong (or right) to us - is the doer's responsibility.
Much cleaner and more elegant without all the theological cruft over the top of it.
Actually, when I "judge", I speak about behavior. I don't recall suggesting that anyone in particular is a gunkie head.
Some behaviors are sinful. I am sinful, so is everyone else. But to suggest that I'm a hatemonger for saying that is simply a personal attack. I don't hate anyone. On the other hand, to call me a hatemonger or bigot is just that--to hate me and display bigotry toward religion.
Which cases? Can you elaborate?
Again, you quite ironically judge me and state that I have a need to control others. No. I don't.
Again....nowhere have I ever suggested that anyone is an evil sinners and needs to just do good. Do you realize that? On the contrary, we see Christians get attacked every day on this forum, calling us names and slandering us.
Let's not discuss politics, ok? This really isn't the forum for it.
The thing is....Christians ( and evangelicals, whatever that word means) live their faith out in their lives. We have a worldview, just as atheists do, and we live our lives according to it. That means that we want freedom to act as we wish, and we vote for candidates that we feel will facilitate the freedoms we want--just as you do.
1. When you say that you are not a hatemonger, well, that is because you easily say that God is going to judge the sinners and send them to hell. That is a projection of what you want done with them. You really have no idea what God really wants, especially since man wrote the bible.
2. You don't want politics on this forum, but religion is steeped in politics. I would love to know why Christians believe that God wanted them to vote for Donald Trump. I would like to know what they saw in him that made them even think that Jesus approved of him. If I put this in the political forum, the Christians will not answer; if I put this in the Christian forum, it would be transferred to the Political forum. Either way, I have no answer. Personally, I can only conclude that Christians are morally bankrupted.
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but not good enough. There is a difference between Real social problems -such as are dealt with by the law - or should be - and the additional list of supposed sins according to religion. As to porn shops - the law Long since had them boarded up so as not to offend the decent citizens who slaver over the sexy bits of the TV shows. And a convicted sex offender next door - isn't he less of a threat that the one next door who hasn't been found and convicted yet? No, I would not take action against them myself, and I rather have a problem with those self -appointed vigilante committees of public safety who decide the Law needs a bit of voluntary assistance.