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Old 12-30-2017, 05:41 AM
 
2,339 posts, read 723,025 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hljc View Post
God tells me that my parents who were Christian and other people who were Christian who have passed away are not in their grave were they were buried as only their earthly remains are there , these people are in bliss with God now ....... So if people say that is not true than my words and the fact that God told me this means, there is no honor from the deniers of God ..... I follow Jesus Christ who is the first born from the dead and my soul will never die ......

Can you, in you own words, describe what bliss means to you?
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Old 12-30-2017, 10:41 AM
Status: "A subtle racist is still a racist" (set 29 days ago)
 
Location: Colorado Springs
16,822 posts, read 7,984,200 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevxu View Post
This does not apply to all the Christians I have met or lived among, but has increasing become the case in my lifetime it seems. In this respect Christians and Muslims are very, very much alike; as they are alike in accepting the bizarre and often sadistic laws of ancient primitive desert tribes as admirable instead of repugnant. And they share an urgent desire to impose their religions over others and on others.

I was a Christian, but have not been for many decades. I follow another way, and avoid Christian and Muslim religious zealots as much as possible. Other than being very watchful that these groups do not achieve political power, why bother them or with them?
I love the way your stated this, particularly what I bolded.
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Old 12-30-2017, 12:13 PM
Status: "...We are closing in..." (set 29 days ago)
 
32,590 posts, read 7,908,519 times
Reputation: 4596
Quote:
Originally Posted by hljc View Post
God tells me that my parents who were Christian and other people who were Christian who have passed away are not in their grave were they were buried as only their earthly remains are there , these people are in bliss with God now ....... So if people say that is not true than my words and the fact that God told me this means, there is no honor from the deniers of God ..... I follow Jesus Christ who is the first born from the dead and my soul will never die ......
Ok. And if I say that those who say they don't credit this claim and ask how you back it up, and you just say they have no honor, and that's all you do say, then that discredits you and yours claims far more than it discredits them and their doubts.
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Old 12-31-2017, 01:41 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
13,306 posts, read 9,307,389 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
We have 4 different historical accounts of the life of Jesus....
Really! Do tell!
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Old 12-31-2017, 01:55 AM
 
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
9,601 posts, read 7,613,940 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
What evidence would you find convincing?
Supernatural phenomena can never be explained, because they are supernatural.

On the other hand, the postive (and negative) effects of religious beliefs and practices and faith (as well as the absence of them) on people's lives can be observed. Everyone is free to come to their own conclusions based on the evidence.
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Old 12-31-2017, 04:04 AM
 
Location: Canada
6,593 posts, read 3,865,717 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina View Post

Yes, in fact, it can be proven that you were descended from lesser primates. You're not a direct descendent, but you originated from the same trunk. The evidence for this is positively overwhelming, but still you'll sit here and deny it because you just don't want to believe in it. Because evolution destroys your literal interpretation of the Bible; in fact, evolution pretty much destroys the entire premise behind Christianity.
.
I hear you guys say this all the time yet fail to show the evidence that man evolved from the primordial mud into what man is today. You guys continually ask for evidence for this or for that, but when anyone asks for the evidence from your world view none is given just remarks like the one you gave above.

The theory of evolution is a fact within its own kind/species this can and has been show to be fact. What is NOT a theory of evolution is the hypothesis that man evolved from the primordial mud.

Just because evolution can be proven within kind/species do NOT equate with origin evolution. One is a fact proven scientifically, the other is only a hypothesis.

However none of you guys are willing to admit this openly because of the fear that it gives the Christian a toe hold for their belief.

Origin evolution is as much faith based as creation and until you guys can admit that openly, for fear of the Christian toe hold, truth will forever be shadowed with darkness.

Fundy thinking at its best. We will attack your worldview, but don't you even question ours, we are right and you are wrong nonsense.
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Old 12-31-2017, 05:06 AM
 
Location: The backwoods of Pennsylvania ... unfortunately.
5,348 posts, read 3,005,879 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma View Post
I hear you guys say this all the time yet fail to show the evidence that man evolved from the primordial mud into what man is today. You guys continually ask for evidence for this or for that, but when anyone asks for the evidence from your world view none is given just remarks like the one you gave above.
That's because people like you want us, atheists and simple forum posters with no expertise in science, to explain it all in a single forum post.

We keep telling you again and again to either buy or check out a book on evolution or, barring that, there are loads of awesome websites and YouTube videos that can give you a proper primer on the subject.

Whether you accept what they say as evidence is totally up to you. Just keep in mind that 95% of relevant scientists have all reached the concensus that evolution is the truth -- that it really did happen. Ironically of the 5% of relevant scientists who STILL cling to the notion of Adam and Eve, 4% of them are American.

Which tells me that either American scientists have some wee bit of knowledge that they aren't sharing with the other 94% -- or perhaps they don't agree with evolution because they just HAPPEN to live in the only industrialized nation that has the same degree of religiosity as most uneducated, impoverished Third World nations.

Yeah, do ya think that, just MAYBE, those 4% of scientists who disagree with evolution who just HAPPEN to live in a very religious country -- just MIGHT have had their science corrupted by cultural bias? MAYBE?

T'would be an awfully HUGE coincidence that almost all of the scientists who disbelieve in evolution all come from the same country -- and that country is still stupidly religious ...ya know?

At any rate, you can't keep coming to we atheists for the answers -- atheists are not automatic experts on evolution. Nor is evolution some kind of "atheist belief system" or "atheist dogma" and therefore all atheists are knowledgeable enough to write lengthy posts explaining how it all works.

I know some people like to say, "Well, you're getting evolution from a book, just like Christians get their beliefs from a book ... so what's the difference?" Or, "Scientists are telling you how the world works, just like Christians who have preachers telling them how the world works ... so what's the difference?"

The difference is that we DO understand how the scientific method works -- and we understand that science has been right far more often than it has been wrong. And religious explanations have NEVER been correct. Not even once.

The reason why you're not huddled up around a fire, wearing animal furs and living in a cave right now is because of how reliable science has been over the last few centuries. What advancements have been made in religion? What new knowledge has religion provided for you? Hmmhmm, I think if your honest with yourself, you'll see what I mean.

In addition, religion is a tempting alternative to science because religious knowledge is common knowledge. In other words, it's easy. You don't have to do a lot of hard study in order to rely on a simplistic religious explanation: "God dunnit!" Rather than wade through a lot of scientific terminology, poring over textbooks, and watching hundreds of gigabytes worth of videos. Religion is just easier, simpler, and best yet, widely accepted in THIS country by a large percentage of the population. There's something to be said for the security of numbers -- never mind if it's correct or not.

Like I said if you're truly about learning about the evidence, you need to teach yourself what evolution is all about, because there is TONS of evidence. You do NOT get a 95% consensus in science if the evidence for evolution was flimsy and sparse. There is no global conspiracy regarding evolution -- despite what some may tell you. After all, the way to get famous in academia is to prove the majority wrong, not simply to "go along to get along." If evolution was completely wrong, there would be scientists galore (not just 5% of them, 4% of them being Americans) trying to cement their name in scientific history by showing how evolution is wrong. Except that's not happening.

And just because someone might start telling you that this distinguished biologist or that award-winning geneticist says evolution is wrong -- so what? As I said, 5% of scientists do doubt evolution -- and its super-easy to draw names from that 5% and claim that these people represent the majority.

I've heard it a thousand times: "Nuh uh! Scientists in their hundreds are coming forward to say evolution is untrue -- take Dr. So-And-So for instance ...."

It's bogus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma View Post
The theory of evolution is a fact within its own kind/species this can and has been show to be fact. What is NOT a theory of evolution is the hypothesis that man evolved from the primordial mud.
The "primordial mud" example is just a simplistic, layman's way of saying that we all ultimately evolved from ever-simplier organisms going all the way back to the single-celled organisms of primordial earth.

No one yet knows for certain how life begain. No one is suggesting they DO know -- except religious people who are using the "God of the Gaps" fallacy.

"Why, if you don't know where life came from, God dunnit!"

Except there have been thousands of times when humanity stood in front of a mystery and said, "I don't know, therefore God!" only for science to eventually figure it out. The origin of life is no different. To expect God or some other Woo that sounds suspiciously like a religion even if it's a New Age religion to be the answer is making the same mistake humans have made, again, thousands upon thousands of times. As I'm so fond of saying: Why bet on a horse that hasn't won a race in at least 200,000 years while refusing to bet on a horse that has won even once, much less the many times science has been right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma View Post
Just because evolution can be proven within kind/species do NOT equate with origin evolution. One is a fact proven scientifically, the other is only a hypothesis.
No, it's not a hypothesis. You need to research transitional fossils. I really hope you're not the kind of person who expects to find the fossil of a half-cat, half-iguana to show that one species can, in fact, become a different species.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma View Post
However none of you guys are willing to admit this openly because of the fear that it gives the Christian a toe hold for their belief.
Yeah, see ... THIS is why I didn't trust you when you claimed to be seeking knowledge. The way you approached this entire subject made me think that you already had made up your mind and you were simply waiting for your chance to pounce.

And here you are, pouncing. I SHOULD have trusted my instincts instead of giving you the benefit of the doubt. Trust me, that won't happen again -- and you've essentially burned up any cred you had with me with your last little quote.

If all you're going to do is tell ME, in direct contravention of the entire scientific community, that evolution has only occurred within the same species -- and how it's all a hypothesis -- and then have the stupid audacity to TELL ME what my motives are for NOT accepting your half-assed explanation, then you can take a **** up a flagpole. I'm not going to sit here and debate with you on this subject.

Hey, you already have it all figured out, anyway, Mr. Ph.D. in Genetics, right? I should just throw out all the books and ignore all the scientists and take YOUR word for it ...

Finally NO, we don't admit that what you're saying is true ... BECAUSE IT'S NOT TRUE! If it WERE true, then we would happily include that amongst our knowledge of how evolution works. SOME of us are actually seeking the truth -- and don't claim to have it all figured out in accordance with our confirmation bias. Unlike *ahem* someone ELSE around here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma View Post
Origin evolution is as much faith based as creation and until you guys can admit that openly, for fear of the Christian toe hold, truth will forever be shadowed with darkness.
You know what -- you're not worth anyone's time here, least of all mine. If all you're going to do is sit there and say that we're deying your made-up truth to avoid giving Christians a toe-hold, then go bugger off. Obviously you were NEVER interested in learning as you previously stated -- TO ME directly.

You just wanted to lead me down your trap-infested little path, waiting for me to trigger one of them. Like I said, I should have trusted my instincts instead of giving you the benefit of the doubt.

In fact, I don't think you've ever given ANY sources for your quaint little tirade. Where are you getting YOUR so-called "facts" from, hmm?

I'm not even going to bother talking to someone who thinks he can win via assertion. Oh yeah, Mr. Hypocrite -- you already seem to know what the truth is, as per the bolded letters, and yet have presented NOTHING backing it up. At the very least, I can tell YOU to find the many websites and videos that explains the evolutionist side of the debate. What have you given? There's more substance in the space between the galaxies than there has been in any of your posts.

Eric Cartman voice: "It's all a hypothesis because I said so! And I'm going to ignore all the evidence for transitional fossils and then throw up a strawman argument about the origin of life to make it look like Shirina the atheist and all her scientist buddies are simply ignoring the truth to avoid giving Christians an advantage. Yah! *sticks out tongue* Mom, where's my cheesy poofs!"

Damn you do not even know how ticked off I am that I trusted you NOT to be just another science-denying Christian -- and I was actually decent toward you because of that. Well, that ends as of now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma View Post
Fundy thinking at its best. We will attack your worldview, but don't you even question ours, we are right and you are wrong nonsense.
LOL! There's a part of my body that I'd tell you to kiss -- but why would I taint my backside like that?

You have the temerity to actually TELL me what my motives are and then accuse ME of fundy thinking? LOL! again.

The thing is -- sometimes one side IS actually right and the other side IS actually wrong. That DOES happen you know. Not EVERYTHING is subject to silly little debates on philosophy and epistemology and pedigogy and meta-masterubating with the truth. There ARE things we do actually KNOW to be true.

And no one, NO ONE, has ever said that we know the origin of life -- just like I NEVER said that we could trace that poster's lineage any further back than to the same trunk as other primates. NO WHERE did I ever say that we know the ORIGIN of life.

YOU are trying to stuff words in my mouth -- and decided to trigger your stupid little trap too early. You thought you had a GOTCHYA moment only to now realize you overplayed your hand.

Heh, better luck next time, kid. Trust ME that I'll never trust YOUR motives again. It just ticks me off that I was ever nice to you.

Last edited by Shirina; 12-31-2017 at 05:27 AM.. Reason: I accidentally deleted my first post while banging my head on my keyboard for trusting a science-denier.
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Old 12-31-2017, 06:53 AM
 
Location: Canada
6,593 posts, read 3,865,717 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina View Post
That's because people like you want us, atheists and simple forum posters with no expertise in science, to explain it all in a single forum post.
Not so I am more then willing to discuss things over many posts and I do not expect you to have all the answers.

Quote:
We keep telling you again and again to either buy or check out a book on evolution or, barring that, there are loads of awesome websites and YouTube videos that can give you a proper primer on the subject.
And I have looked at these and find bias on both the evolution side and creation side. Statements made as fact that are not correct.

Quote:
Whether you accept what they say as evidence is totally up to you. Just keep in mind that 95% of relevant scientists have all reached the concensus that evolution is the truth -- that it really did happen. Ironically of the 5% of relevant scientists who STILL cling to the notion of Adam and Eve, 4% of them are American.

Which tells me that either American scientists have some wee bit of knowledge that they aren't sharing with the other 94% -- or perhaps they don't agree with evolution because they just HAPPEN to live in the only industrialized nation that has the same degree of religiosity as most uneducated, impoverished Third World nations.

Yeah, do ya think that, just MAYBE, those 4% of scientists who disagree with evolution who just HAPPEN to live in a very religious country -- just MIGHT have had their science corrupted by cultural bias? MAYBE?

T'would be an awfully HUGE coincidence that almost all of the scientists who disbelieve in evolution all come from the same country -- and that country is still stupidly religious ...ya know?
That is nothing more then a religious rant and has nothing to do with anything I said. Yes evolution is true, even creationist can agree with that. However evolutionists will not admit that there is a difference between origin or historical evolution (dino to bird) and evolution between kind/species.

Quote:
At any rate, you can't keep coming to we atheists for the answers -- atheists are not automatic experts on evolution. Nor is evolution some kind of "atheist belief system" or "atheist dogma" and therefore all atheists are knowledgeable enough to write lengthy posts explaining how it all works.
The Christian here could say the same thing but that does not stop you guys from asking/attacking/laughing at their worldview because they don't have all the answers. Didn't think of that did you.

Quote:
I know some people like to say, "Well, you're getting evolution from a book, just like Christians get their beliefs from a book ... so what's the difference?" Or, "Scientists are telling you how the world works, just like Christians who have preachers telling them how the world works ... so what's the difference?"

The difference is that we DO understand how the scientific method works -- and we understand that science has been right far more often than it has been wrong. And religious explanations have NEVER been correct. Not even once.
Another statement made without any evidence and is contrary to your statement above that atheists are not knowledgeable enough in evolution to explain how it works.

Quote:
The reason why you're not huddled up around a fire, wearing animal furs and living in a cave right now is because of how reliable science has been over the last few centuries. What advancements have been made in religion? What new knowledge has religion provided for you? Hmmhmm, I think if your honest with yourself, you'll see what I mean.
No one has said anything about science being in error. You equate origin evolution with science as though science has proven origin evolution. IT HAS NOT.
This is just one of those attacks on creation by atheists that has no footing in fact.
Creationist believe in science and have no issue with the science, we just won't take a hypothesis for scientific fact.

Quote:
In addition, religion is a tempting alternative to science because religious knowledge is common knowledge. In other words, it's easy. You don't have to do a lot of hard study in order to rely on a simplistic religious explanation: "God dunnit!" Rather than wade through a lot of scientific terminology, poring over textbooks, and watching hundreds of gigabytes worth of videos. Religion is just easier, simpler, and best yet, widely accepted in THIS country by a large percentage of the population. There's something to be said for the security of numbers -- never mind if it's correct or not.
Creation is not an alternative to science, creation is an alternative to the hypothesis of origin evolution. But I see what you are doing, trying to say origin evolution is science and it is NOT it is a hypothesis that has not been proven.

Quote:
Like I said if you're truly about learning about the evidence, you need to teach yourself what evolution is all about, because there is TONS of evidence. You do NOT get a 95% consensus in science if the evidence for evolution was flimsy and sparse. There is no global conspiracy regarding evolution -- despite what some may tell you. After all, the way to get famous in academia is to prove the majority wrong, not simply to "go along to get along." If evolution was completely wrong, there would be scientists galore (not just 5% of them, 4% of them being Americans) trying to cement their name in scientific history by showing how evolution is wrong. Except that's not happening.
No one, not even creationist will say evolution is in error. Creationist believe in evolution, we do not believe in the origin evolution hypothesis. A hypothesis is not a proven scientific fact.

Quote:
And just because someone might start telling you that this distinguished biologist or that award-winning geneticist says evolution is wrong -- so what? As I said, 5% of scientists do doubt evolution -- and its super-easy to draw names from that 5% and claim that these people represent the majority.

I've heard it a thousand times: "Nuh uh! Scientists in their hundreds are coming forward to say evolution is untrue -- take Dr. So-And-So for instance ...."

It's bogus.
No scientist of any kind will state evolution is in error, it has been proven time and again to be a fact. However origin evolution has not been established as a proven fact it is a hypothesis.









Quote:
The "primordial mud" example is just a simplistic, layman's way of saying that we all ultimately evolved from ever-simplier organisms going all the way back to the single-celled organisms of primordial earth.

No one yet knows for certain how life begain. No one is suggesting they DO know -- except religious people who are using the "God of the Gaps" fallacy.

"Why, if you don't know where life came from, God dunnit!"
In other words it is a hypothesis.

Quote:
Except there have been thousands of times when humanity stood in front of a mystery and said, "I don't know, therefore God!" only for science to eventually figure it out. The origin of life is no different. To expect God or some other Woo that sounds suspiciously like a religion even if it's a New Age religion to be the answer is making the same mistake humans have made, again, thousands upon thousands of times. As I'm so fond of saying: Why bet on a horse that hasn't won a race in at least 200,000 years while refusing to bet on a horse that has won even once, much less the many times science has been right?
To believe God created the heavens and earth is a faith based claim and part of our worldview. To believe life sprang from nothing is a faith based claim and your worldview, at least I can acknowledge what I believe is based on faith and science, you guys on the other hand say your worldview is based only on science yet no science can tell you how life began.




Quote:
No, it's not a hypothesis. You need to research transitional fossils. I really hope you're not the kind of person who expects to find the fossil of a half-cat, half-iguana to show that one species can, in fact, become a different species.
Yup the millions and millions of transitional fossils we should have are simply not there and the ones we do have are being argued over all the time so what you say is written in stone as it were has not been proven. However your worldview will not let you accept that.





Quote:
Yeah, see ... THIS is why I didn't trust you when you claimed to be seeking knowledge. The way you approached this entire subject made me think that you already had made up your mind and you were simply waiting for your chance to pounce.

And here you are, pouncing. I SHOULD have trusted my instincts instead of giving you the benefit of the doubt. Trust me, that won't happen again -- and you've essentially burned up any cred you had with me with your last little quote.
Well you can think whatever you will, but I know myself better then you do and I did have questions about JUST evolution to see if it really was against creation. Evolution is not against creation, origin evolution is and has not been proven scientifically. You said it yourself no one know how life began.

Quote:
If all you're going to do is tell ME, in direct contravention of the entire scientific community, that evolution has only occurred within the same species -- and how it's all a hypothesis -- and then have the stupid audacity to TELL ME what my motives are for NOT accepting your half-assed explanation, then you can take a **** up a flagpole. I'm not going to sit here and debate with you on this subject.
And if all you are going to do is tell me that origin evolution is a scientific fact without any evidence (remember you said no one knows how life began) then we would both be wasting our time.

For myself I ask questions to learn things, I may not come to the same conclusions as you regarding the evidence but it does help me in understanding the worldview from the others perspective.

Quote:
Hey, you already have it all figured out, anyway, Mr. Ph.D. in Genetics, right? I should just throw out all the books and ignore all the scientists and take YOUR word for it ...

Finally NO, we don't admit that what you're saying is true ... BECAUSE IT'S NOT TRUE! If it WERE true, then we would happily include that amongst our knowledge of how evolution works. SOME of us are actually seeking the truth -- and don't claim to have it all figured out in accordance with our confirmation bias. Unlike *ahem* someone ELSE around here.

No I don't have it all figured out shirina, what I expect and hope for is an honest discussion of the science in question (origin evolution) looking at both sides of the issue, but no one seems willing to do this. It is as though they are scared to really look at their worldview.








Quote:
You know what -- you're not worth anyone's time here, least of all mine. If all you're going to do is sit there and say that we're deying your made-up truth to avoid giving Christians a toe-hold, then go bugger off. Obviously you were NEVER interested in learning as you previously stated -- TO ME directly.

You just wanted to lead me down your trap-infested little path, waiting for me to trigger one of them. Like I said, I should have trusted my instincts instead of giving you the benefit of the doubt.

In fact, I don't think you've ever given ANY sources for your quaint little tirade. Where are you getting YOUR so-called "facts" from, hmm?

I'm not even going to bother talking to someone who thinks he can win via assertion.
You got me all wrong shirina, I do my best to look at all sides of an issue before coming to a final conclusion. My worldview involves creation, and I could just leave it at that, but I don't I am looking at the evolutionary origin worldview to see if it make anymore sense scientifically then creation or if both worldviews depend on faith. SO FAR and I stress so far all I can see is I would be changing from one faith based belief into another. But at least I am still looking. It would be a lot easier if some of you guys were at least willing to discuss the matter but none of you seem to be willing to do that.










Quote:
LOL! There's a part of my body that I'd tell you to kiss -- but why would I taint my backside like that?

You have the temerity to actually TELL me what my motives are and then accuse ME of fundy thinking? LOL! again.

The thing is -- sometimes one side IS actually right and the other side IS actually wrong. That DOES happen you know. Not EVERYTHING is subject to silly little debates on philosophy and epistemology and pedigogy and meta-masterubating with the truth. There ARE things we do actually KNOW to be true.

And no one, NO ONE, has ever said that we know the origin of life -- just like I NEVER said that we could trace that poster's lineage any further back than to a single-celled organism. NO WHERE did I ever say that we know the ORIGIN of that single-celled organism.

YOU are trying to stuff words in my mouth -- and decided to trigger your stupid little trap too early. You thought you had a GOTCHYA moment only to now realize you overplayed your hand.

Heh, better luck next time, kid. Trust ME that I'll never trust YOUR motives again
The fundamental worldview is a worldview that does not like anyone questioning their belief system and by the responses I get just from asking a few questions shows me that atheist and evolutionist definitely have a fundamental worldview.

Look at the title to this thread.

Christians Cannot Defend What They Claim

This thread is saying we cannot defend what we believe (there are many threads like this on the religious form) yet if we try and defend it via science or the lack of evidence from science (the only evidence you guys will believe ) we are shut out from the mods as science according to them has nothing to do with religion.

Kind of hard to defend what we believe with the only evidence, or lack thereof, that you guys would even consider when we cannot even bring forth that evidence.

To be fair the mods should not even allow question or claims like that if they will not let us defend our belief with the only thing you guys will except a viable: science.
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Old 12-31-2017, 10:01 AM
Status: "...We are closing in..." (set 29 days ago)
 
32,590 posts, read 7,908,519 times
Reputation: 4596
Because you're doing your 'Defending' the wrong way. Going after Evolution by way of Abiogenesis claims does not do a single thing to help defend your faith. It is a basic piece of Religious apologetic wrongheadedness to think that, if they can prove that we don't know where the Universe, Life and everything came from, God' has to be the answer.

Well it doesn't and it looks increasingly like there is No Planning Mind behind it. Therefore a Natural origin (whatever it is) seems the better guess.

Don't you see that this attempt to undermine Abiogenesis or pick holes in evolution theory gets you nowhere, even if you could make it stick the way you want to?

And even if - which we will all concede - including Dawkins - that a case can be made for a creator -god of some kind (though it's not one we feel we have to accept) so what? It's academic.

What affects us are these claims that the particular religions make about Their God and Their Holy Book and Their Afterlife -beliefs.

And that is what (as we see in debate after debate) they can't defend. Don't get sucked into this Fundy -creationist canard that if you can just discredit evolution -theory, then it proves a god, and even a particular religion. It doesn't.

I shouldn't discuss the Mod decision -making on Science, but as I recall it came out of spending far too long on arguing about whether science is valid. It was the same as finding some apologists argued that logic is only human opinion and that everything (science, logic) should be dismissed in favour of Faith.

Science has made its' case and so has evolution. It doesn't disprove a god, or Jesus, but it does relegate Genesis to 'metaphor' and so you have to choose; A Christianity that accepts that not all the stories in the Bible are literally true, or a Bible -literalist Fundamentalism. The lie that the Creationists are putting about that the choice is 'believe evolution or believe Jesus - you can't do both' is garbage. The choice is 'Bible literalist Christianity or a non Bible -literalist Christianity'.

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 12-31-2017 at 10:14 AM..
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Old 12-31-2017, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,051 posts, read 8,257,136 times
Reputation: 5979
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Because you're doing your 'Defending' the wrong way. Going after Evolution by way of Abiogenesis claims does not do a single thing to help defend your faith. It is a basic piece of Religious apologetic wrongheadedness to think that, if they can prove that we don't know where the Universe, Life and everything came from, God' has to be the answer.
You're too kind, as you're not mentioning the fact that the theory of evolution does not address or deal with origins, so objecting to the TOE on the basis of Abiogenesis (which is not even a scientific theory, merely a scientific hypothesis at this point) is rather less valid than objecting to Microsoft Word by criticizing Charles Babbage.
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