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Old 12-30-2017, 09:48 AM
 
Location: Western Washington
6,993 posts, read 7,018,015 times
Reputation: 12068

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
My personal opinion is that there are just some mean-spirited people that like to mock and insult people.

Many of them have been raised in religious homes, and they have legitimate gripes, and they don't feel they can do that in real life, so they do it here, anonymously. And they feel better because they've told off some religious people.
That is a bit of a negative view.

Can you see that same concept can also apply to Christians? Raised in a secular home, angry about it, converted and tell people off to feel good about themselves?

Perhaps atheists are as convinced of our beliefs as you are convinced of Christian beliefs. We are both communicating truth as we see and understand it in the hopes that others will also see and understand, and live better lives for it.

Can you at least acknowledge the possibility that atheists are telling the truth?
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Old 12-30-2017, 10:16 AM
Status: "...We are closing in..." (set 7 days ago)
 
32,451 posts, read 7,768,245 times
Reputation: 4578
So Far, I have seen the argument that Faith is better off without any evidence, which I doubt is really true and if it is is a very good reason why Faith isn't a good thing. There is a bit of moaning about how rude and nasty atheists are -because we pretty much pwn the argument now - we have seen all the apologetics and know how to answer them. And we got a mention of a very common deconversion method - actually looking at the religion instead of just having Faith in it.

I'd say that pretty much says it all.
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Old 12-30-2017, 10:21 AM
Status: "A subtle racist is still a racist" (set 7 days ago)
 
Location: Colorado Springs
16,481 posts, read 7,852,863 times
Reputation: 16365
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corvette Ministries View Post
This is prompted by the umpteenth thread on this forum arguing the viability of following Christianity.

Those who challenge Christianity rightfully demand evidence, fully knowing Christians are incapable of providing sufficient evidence.

Christians jump in with their usual apologetics, fully anticipating all the counter-arguments and feel prepared to challenge them, usually to their dispair.

My question is, What's the point? Do atheists feel Christians will suddenly say, "OMG! The atheists were right all along! My total and utter faith in the LORD has been a house of cards all along! I feel like such an IDIOT!!"

And do Christians think atheists are gonna say, "I cannot believe I did not see it all along! Why, it's OBVIOUS that this glorious world that I formerly saw as a grand accident is all the work of a wonderful Grand Master of the Universe! Praise the LORD!"

What are we trying to accomplish here?
In terms of the bolded, that's what happened to me, although not because of any forums.

But in general I think there are a couple of things involved, at least for American atheists.

It's very important to me -- and was even when I was Christian -- to totally separate church and state, and much of the Christian right wants their religion to have political power. And people like me are going to fight back tooth and nail and not let that happen.

Additionally, it's important to us to say, "Mind your own damn business". I never had atheists knock on my door proselytizing. Nor Buddhists. Nor any other group was not some kind of Christian denomination. And it's presumptuous and insulting for Christian proselytizers to do so. They need to back and off and mind their own business, and that includes "ads" that come in the mail. If I go out driving for 30 minutes I'll probably pass a dozen churches; if I want to go in, I'm smart enough to park the car and open the church doors.

And (at least for me), there's an attitude issue. MANY Christians look down on non-Christians. All over something for which there is no concrete evidence. I hated it when I saw that happening here, and I hated it when I saw that attitude overseas in non-Christian countries. Get over yourselves. You're nothing special. If there is a god, he created every man and woman and child on the planet.

And finally (for me), the 2 main promises of Christianity -- an all powerful and ever-loving god -- is just pure nonsense, and I refuse to listen to it without speaking out. I will no longer be silent.

Oh, and one more: Christians who can't even tell the difference between faith and proof. I don't mind so much if one is faithful; there's nothing wrong with faith. But I mind when they're too dumb to see that something is not proof, but is faith.

Last edited by phetaroi; 12-30-2017 at 10:44 AM..
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Old 12-30-2017, 10:32 AM
Status: "...We are closing in..." (set 7 days ago)
 
32,451 posts, read 7,768,245 times
Reputation: 4578
Your best post yet. And banging each nail home.
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Old 12-30-2017, 10:44 AM
 
4,648 posts, read 1,771,602 times
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First post in a long time.

When a theist states that they believe in a God I can find no fault in them. But when they state that not only do they know that God is real for a fact and that the Earth is only 6000 years old, that geology proves Noah's flood and that evolution is a lie, it becomes truly their burden to prove any of that. If they claim that atheists cannot be moral, or loving people again the claim is theirs and they certainly should expect to be challenged on those claims. If a Christian is demanding that their type of Christianity must be part of the laws and education of the country expect blowback.

Also many of these Christians who feel that their religious worldview is being insulted appear to have no difficulty in insulting the religious worldview of others including other Christians who are not the right type of Christian.

Are some atheists on these forums and elsewhere abbrassivve, definitely yes but no worse than some of the Christians I alluded to above.

BaptistFundie, it is only places like this forum that I come in contact with your type of Christians and I doubt I would say anything on these forums that I would not say to a person's face. There are several on this forum whom I have had my share of run ins that I would be quite comfortable going out for a tea or a beer and discuss any subject with. Your last paragraph insults many people as well as you are calling them cowards and so forth without actually stating that.

In effect I say that there are wonderful atheists and theists and not so wonderful atheists and theists on these forums and it is your own bias if you only see it as one side is great and the other side rotten.

Best of the New Year everyone. I do drop by not logged in regularly but seldom see it worthwhile posting anymore.
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Old 12-30-2017, 10:45 AM
Status: "A subtle racist is still a racist" (set 7 days ago)
 
Location: Colorado Springs
16,481 posts, read 7,852,863 times
Reputation: 16365
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Your best post yet. And banging each nail home.
Thank you.

Over the years I have spoken out of a number of issues, especially including racism. I hate oppression, and Christians are often awfully good at oppression.-
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Old 12-30-2017, 11:14 AM
Status: "OINK! OINK! WOOF!" (set 17 days ago)
 
Location: Anderson, IN
3,611 posts, read 979,583 times
Reputation: 2259
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
My personal opinion is that there are just some mean-spirited people that like to mock and insult people.

Many of them have been raised in religious homes, and they have legitimate gripes, and they don't feel they can do that in real life, so they do it here, anonymously. And they feel better because they've told off some religious people.
This really weirds me out. The bolded I mean. Do people who say that believe they've entered an alternate reality when they post here?

This is really freaky. I know a lot of things make me feel this way, but what am I supposed to do about it? This is really freaky. I was watching TV and saw this commercial for an online shoe retailer, and a woman who bought shoes from the site said something to the effect of "but I would never buy these in real life. "

In real life?

What?

WHAT?!?!

You guys are like "ooo...that is really freaky" now ,aren't you?
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Old 12-30-2017, 12:46 PM
Status: "...We are closing in..." (set 7 days ago)
 
32,451 posts, read 7,768,245 times
Reputation: 4578
We get this all the time - The believes trying to think up any Explanation as to why atheists say they dobn't believe so long as it isn't the Actual One. And that we just like to insult and irritate Decent People from the safety of internet anonymity is just another of their self -deceptions. All we need to do is simply say 'No - it's because we don't believe, for very good reasons. If some of what we say is hard hitting or it offends, it is said not to wound, but because just stating the case quietly and respectfully is brushed away with some equally quiet and respectful; rejoinder, such 'You have no idea what you are talking about, Satan has control of your mind," and of course, the ever -popular and utterly mean -spiited "The fool hath said in his heart.."

Or something like that.
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Old 12-30-2017, 02:21 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,046 posts, read 8,213,649 times
Reputation: 5974
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
They need to back and off and mind their own business, and that includes "ads" that come in the mail.
I totally agree with the rest of this post but think the quoted statement a bit of a stretch. I think they have as much right as anyone to advertise, by mail or otherwise. They seem even less aware than many businesses how unwelcome their ads are, or how bad the "optics" often are. But it's just an ad. Mail ads are easily dispensed with, straight to the recycling and no skin off my back. Actually about 95% of my postal letter mail goes there anyway.

Also, I don't recall any recent incidents that I got something from a church by that avenue anyway.
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Old 12-30-2017, 02:51 PM
 
Location: Western Washington
6,993 posts, read 7,018,015 times
Reputation: 12068
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Additionally, it's important to us to say, "Mind your own damn business". I never had atheists knock on my door proselytizing. Nor Buddhists. Nor any other group was not some kind of Christian denomination. And it's presumptuous and insulting for Christian proselytizers to do so. They need to back and off and mind their own business, and that includes "ads" that come in the mail. If I go out driving for 30 minutes I'll probably pass a dozen churches; if I want to go in, I'm smart enough to park the car and open the church doors.
Marketing does work at some level. Look at atheism and the Internet. I suspect a causal link between the easy access to information rebutting apologetics and the dramatic rise of the “nones”. I strongly suspect the occasional lurker reads these forums and decides to give up religion, just as I think the occasional lurker may read them and turn to religion as well.

I work on a college campus, and we frequently have JWs, Gideons, and the occasional Mormon handing out material. It is a public space, and they are certainly permitted to do so. I don’t see any takers though, so I do wonder why these people continue, as it seems to be a pretty thankless job.
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