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Old 12-30-2017, 09:16 PM
 
Location: Western Washington
7,718 posts, read 7,504,992 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salis-N View Post
But you do acknowledge that your beliefs are essentially the same as atheism? Just different titles?
Golden can go on for pages with this drivel. He likes to argue from the standpoint that any definition in any dictionary that supports his viewpoint is prescriptive rather than descriptive, and therefore proof.

At the same time, he likes to create his own definitions of atheism, or anything else.

In general, he makes up his own terms and is willing to change them arbitrarily in order to avoid being pinned down, then he wraps it in this unclear writing style. Donít waste too much time with him, he doesnít have anything much of substance to say.
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Old 12-30-2017, 09:40 PM
 
3,410 posts, read 1,245,860 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains View Post
These are essentially saying the same thing.

Of course I believe in all the master and energy that has ever existed. Of course I believe in a carved statue.

If you want to call either or both god, you are welcome to it, however that is a substantial redefinition of the word god as we typically use it. Most people conceive of some sort of Omni-agent, a thing with self knowledge and power. Simply using the word god to be roughly synonymous with the universe, or a reference to an icon, does not mean that I am incorrect when I say I don’t believe in god.

We are using the same word to refer to different things.

If you wish to define or describe what you mean by god, I may in fact agree with you that it exists. If golden wants to stop at “all the energy/matter that exists or has existed”, I will agree that things that exist, do exist, and things that have existed, have existed. I sim0ly don’t think that helps us much, and takes me not one step closer to believing in a god as conceived of by most people/religions.

Having read Golden’s posts, it won’t be long before he tries to slide in other attributes, and those remain unproven.
So you are saying a cow or a statue is not a god, or they ARE gods? Which one is it for you?
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Old 12-30-2017, 10:07 PM
 
Location: Western Washington
7,718 posts, read 7,504,992 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
So you are saying a cow or a statue is not a god, or they ARE gods? Which one is it for you?
They are not gods.

This game that people play where they change the definition of god to include almost anything is quite silly really. If you want to name your cat Jesus Christ and say that this proves the second coming, go ahead. It doesnít actually prove @nything though.
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Old 12-31-2017, 03:32 PM
 
3,410 posts, read 1,245,860 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains View Post
They are not gods.

This game that people play where they change the definition of god to include almost anything is quite silly really. If you want to name your cat Jesus Christ and say that this proves the second coming, go ahead. It doesn’t actually prove @nything though.
Interesting,
So you DO know (somewhat) what God is, and based on information and from that frame of reference, you can use your logic and intelligence to figure out that a cow or a monkey or an elephant or a carved statue is NOT God?
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Old 12-31-2017, 03:54 PM
 
Location: 'greater' Buffalo, NY
2,801 posts, read 1,884,302 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
As I always say, the actual interlocutors are for the most part not really listening to each other or going to change, however, for every active participant there are 90 to 99 lurkers and many of those are far more open and actively researching a relatively considered opinion. I have also said many times that I would have appreciated more of the kinds of posts I typically do, back when I was in the process of deconversion.

Beyond that it's just the practice keeping your mind sharp and some mild entertainment value.
Contributing to the deconversion of lurkers is the hidden payoff that the forum atheist will never be aware of receiving. Unlike Christian missionaries, who get the satisfaction of seeing firsthand the fruits of their recruitment efforts....

In reality though, forum participants are mostly participating for their own benefit; the reward of posting is for exposure to thought-provoking material presented by people on one's own side. Or so I assume; the previous encapsulates my own reason for posting.
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Old 12-31-2017, 04:14 PM
 
6,637 posts, read 3,849,275 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains View Post
Golden can go on for pages with this drivel. He likes to argue from the standpoint that any definition in any dictionary that supports his viewpoint is prescriptive rather than descriptive, and therefore proof.

At the same time, he likes to create his own definitions of atheism, or anything else.

In general, he makes up his own terms and is willing to change them arbitrarily in order to avoid being pinned down, then he wraps it in this unclear writing style. Donít waste too much time with him, he doesnít have anything much of substance to say.
I use the full & complete, EXPERT provided definitions...for all words and terms.
It is those that seek to redact and excise certain definitions because they show their argument to be bogus, that is the problem.
Don't blame me...take it up with Merriam-Webster, etc.
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Old 12-31-2017, 04:17 PM
 
6,637 posts, read 3,849,275 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salis-N View Post
But you do acknowledge that your beliefs are essentially the same as atheism? Just different titles?
No...my belief (that God unequivocally and irrefutably exists) is the exact opposite of Atheism.
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Old 12-31-2017, 04:24 PM
 
6,637 posts, read 3,849,275 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains View Post
They are not gods.

This game that people play where they change the definition of god to include almost anything is quite silly really. If you want to name your cat Jesus Christ and say that this proves the second coming, go ahead. It doesnít actually prove @nything though.
Bogus analogy.
"God" is a title, assigned based upon attributes whereby the entity comports definitively as God. It isn't a name.
If one *did* name something "God"...that would mean no more than that...it's named God. Not that it meets the definitive standard of a God Entity.
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Old 12-31-2017, 04:25 PM
 
Location: 'greater' Buffalo, NY
2,801 posts, read 1,884,302 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule View Post
No...my belief (that God unequivocally and irrefutably exists) is the exact opposite of Atheism.
well, the assertion that 'a god exists' is in fact irrefutable; I'll give you that. It's unfalsifiable. However, an unfalsifiable concept of god is also unprovable and, indeed, unknowable. Hence agnosticism.
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Old 12-31-2017, 04:54 PM
 
Location: Western Washington
7,718 posts, read 7,504,992 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
Interesting,
So you DO know (somewhat) what God is, and based on information and from that frame of reference, you can use your logic and intelligence to figure out that a cow or a monkey or an elephant or a carved statue is NOT God?
Isnít that blindingly obvious? Donít we all use our understanding of reality to make inferences?

God is commonly understood to have omni-powers, or be at least everpresent.

I havenít seen any cows defy the laws of physics, and looking around my house, I donít see any cows lurking about.

What is your point anyway?
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