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Old 12-29-2017, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Ft Myers, FL
1,832 posts, read 812,529 times
Reputation: 3288

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This is prompted by the umpteenth thread on this forum arguing the viability of following Christianity.

Those who challenge Christianity rightfully demand evidence, fully knowing Christians are incapable of providing sufficient evidence.

Christians jump in with their usual apologetics, fully anticipating all the counter-arguments and feel prepared to challenge them, usually to their dispair.

My question is, What's the point? Do atheists feel Christians will suddenly say, "OMG! The atheists were right all along! My total and utter faith in the LORD has been a house of cards all along! I feel like such an IDIOT!!"

And do Christians think atheists are gonna say, "I cannot believe I did not see it all along! Why, it's OBVIOUS that this glorious world that I formerly saw as a grand accident is all the work of a wonderful Grand Master of the Universe! Praise the LORD!"

What are we trying to accomplish here?
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Old 12-29-2017, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,051 posts, read 8,269,558 times
Reputation: 5980
As I always say, the actual interlocutors are for the most part not really listening to each other or going to change, however, for every active participant there are 90 to 99 lurkers and many of those are far more open and actively researching a relatively considered opinion. I have also said many times that I would have appreciated more of the kinds of posts I typically do, back when I was in the process of deconversion.

Beyond that it's just the practice keeping your mind sharp and some mild entertainment value.
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Old 12-29-2017, 04:22 PM
 
10,028 posts, read 3,835,423 times
Reputation: 1142
Decoverted from what? holding a belief statement more important than describing what kind of system we are in?

I don't so mordant. You are exactly the same., you just swapped out one addiction to a belief statement based on personal need for another personal need based belief statement. that's why you ran away from the science that disproves deny everything one has to to maintain a belief statement over reality.

you have your personal reason for believing, in fact, thats all you have is personal reasons. Just like all the other fundy theists. oh wait, you are one, sorry.

I would challenge you directly, again, but like always, you run away frightened of the science that exposes your belief as false. Just like any fundy theist does.

or, like a typical fundy, you just fill in the gaps with what you want. lmao. yeah, you guys know what best for public consumption. just like joel olsteen does.
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Old 12-29-2017, 05:10 PM
 
19,768 posts, read 15,135,322 times
Reputation: 6997
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corvette Ministries View Post
This is prompted by the umpteenth thread on this forum arguing the viability of following Christianity.

Those who challenge Christianity rightfully demand evidence, fully knowing Christians are incapable of providing sufficient evidence.

Christians jump in with their usual apologetics, fully anticipating all the counter-arguments and feel prepared to challenge them, usually to their dispair.

My question is, What's the point? Do atheists feel Christians will suddenly say, "OMG! The atheists were right all along! My total and utter faith in the LORD has been a house of cards all along! I feel like such an IDIOT!!"

And do Christians think atheists are gonna say, "I cannot believe I did not see it all along! Why, it's OBVIOUS that this glorious world that I formerly saw as a grand accident is all the work of a wonderful Grand Master of the Universe! Praise the LORD!"

What are we trying to accomplish here?
Some people, once they have examined the historical evidence concerning Jesus and the apostles will find it valid and will come to believe the Gospel. Other people will never find the evidence convincing and will remain unbelievers with regard to Jesus. Others will remain atheists. One can believe in God or in a god but not believe in Jesus and so they are not atheists. . . just unbelievers concerning Jesus.

A case in point concerning an atheist who became a believer after examining the evidence is J. Warner Wallace who was a cold case homicide detective and after becoming a believer wrote a book called 'Cold-Case Christianity' in which he explains how he used his detective skills to examine the historical evidence which is presented in the Bible and found it convincing.

Many people, who you never heard of, and never will, have come to believe in Jesus. Many others never will. All the believer can do is share the gospel and hope that something sinks in.

Addendum:

Ooops. I thought this was posted in the Christianity forum. Being in the Religion forum it will simply get the usual replies from the usual people. Not worth the time going over the same things with the same people.

Last edited by Mike555; 12-29-2017 at 05:19 PM..
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Old 12-29-2017, 05:45 PM
 
Location: Latitude 29
3,176 posts, read 1,109,285 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corvette Ministries View Post
This is prompted by the umpteenth thread on this forum arguing the viability of following Christianity
What are we trying to accomplish here?
I too doubt that anyone's changed their minds here, but people want to have their questions, and others want to have their points and counterpoints.

It's less about the destination (which is often nowhere), and more about the journey. People should be given a chance to openly and freely discuss these matters. Think of it as freedom of thought, press, and belief. It's stimulating and even therapeutic. It is a good thing - even healthy - despite the end result.

It's not something that necessarily has to make sense. And it's not a 'contest' where there will be any winners. That's not the point. Maybe pour a glass of wine if this forum is too annoying for you...
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Old 12-30-2017, 07:37 AM
 
Location: Texas
59 posts, read 25,908 times
Reputation: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Some people, once they have examined the historical evidence concerning Jesus and the apostles will find it valid and will come to believe the Gospel. Other people will never find the evidence convincing and will remain unbelievers with regard to Jesus. Others will remain atheists. One can believe in God or in a god but not believe in Jesus and so they are not atheists. . . just unbelievers concerning Jesus.

A case in point concerning an atheist who became a believer after examining the evidence is J. Warner Wallace who was a cold case homicide detective and after becoming a believer wrote a book called 'Cold-Case Christianity' in which he explains how he used his detective skills to examine the historical evidence which is presented in the Bible and found it convincing.

Many people, who you never heard of, and never will, have come to believe in Jesus. Many others never will. All the believer can do is share the gospel and hope that something sinks in.

Addendum:

Ooops. I thought this was posted in the Christianity forum. Being in the Religion forum it will simply get the usual replies from the usual people. Not worth the time going over the same things with the same people.
My thing with apologetics is this... I just can't imagine that's how things were intended. Are the apologists here really an army summoned by God to bring people to Christianity? That's just hard to fathom. Are they really doing God's work?

Are we really supposed to be browsing the web reading arguments that attempt to validate Christianity? And is it wrong to not want to do that?

I know plenty of people who will probably never enter the religious discussion arena... and will likely remain what they've been all along.
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Old 12-30-2017, 07:54 AM
 
Location: Texas
59 posts, read 25,908 times
Reputation: 43
I played the apologist role. I have little doubt that led to my eventual deconversion. But for me it was the first time I really entered the religious questioning arena. So it could've been me just learning and not necessarily me being an apologist.

Some people just like the topic. I think that's what keeps me coming back. I participated as a christian and now I participate irreligiously, mostly as a lurker.
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Old 12-30-2017, 08:08 AM
 
9,440 posts, read 13,076,246 times
Reputation: 10157
Faith requires no proof. It is faith or, per definition, if it requires proof, it becomes a belief. Not faith. Everyone who "jumps" onto any "factitious" argument, on either side of the line called "reality" (aka creation) does not have faith, but has doubt. Doubt, no matter how suppressed and "convinced" over, never goes away, as when person has no doubt, he has faith, of whatever kind, and then see sentence 1. Otherwise, doubt leads one on literally eternal journey of self convincing in this or that, just to cover up that voice of doubt.
Y'all are arguing beliefs. None of you is arguing faith as faith needs no argument or proof.
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Old 12-30-2017, 08:15 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there.
5,215 posts, read 3,138,822 times
Reputation: 3650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corvette Ministries View Post
This is prompted by the umpteenth thread on this forum arguing the viability of following Christianity.

Those who challenge Christianity rightfully demand evidence, fully knowing Christians are incapable of providing sufficient evidence.

Christians jump in with their usual apologetics, fully anticipating all the counter-arguments and feel prepared to challenge them, usually to their dispair.

My question is, What's the point? Do atheists feel Christians will suddenly say, "OMG! The atheists were right all along! My total and utter faith in the LORD has been a house of cards all along! I feel like such an IDIOT!!"

And do Christians think atheists are gonna say, "I cannot believe I did not see it all along! Why, it's OBVIOUS that this glorious world that I formerly saw as a grand accident is all the work of a wonderful Grand Master of the Universe! Praise the LORD!"

What are we trying to accomplish here?

Good question.

The very definition of 'faith' is belief without evidence.

If Christians had evidence, they wouldn't have faith, which always strikes me as ironic.
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Old 12-30-2017, 08:26 AM
 
4,256 posts, read 1,044,406 times
Reputation: 613
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corvette Ministries View Post
This is prompted by the umpteenth thread on this forum arguing the viability of following Christianity.

Those who challenge Christianity rightfully demand evidence, fully knowing Christians are incapable of providing sufficient evidence.

Christians jump in with their usual apologetics, fully anticipating all the counter-arguments and feel prepared to challenge them, usually to their dispair.

My question is, What's the point? Do atheists feel Christians will suddenly say, "OMG! The atheists were right all along! My total and utter faith in the LORD has been a house of cards all along! I feel like such an IDIOT!!"

And do Christians think atheists are gonna say, "I cannot believe I did not see it all along! Why, it's OBVIOUS that this glorious world that I formerly saw as a grand accident is all the work of a wonderful Grand Master of the Universe! Praise the LORD!"

What are we trying to accomplish here?
My personal opinion is that there are just some mean-spirited people that like to mock and insult people.

Many of them have been raised in religious homes, and they have legitimate gripes, and they don't feel they can do that in real life, so they do it here, anonymously. And they feel better because they've told off some religious people.
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