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Old 12-30-2017, 08:04 PM
 
Location: Ft Myers, FL
2,011 posts, read 921,688 times
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Was brought up Presbyterian till I was 14, then decided I didn't believe any of it and left.

Was an atheist for 45 years, then felt a calling back to the LORD, and started attending a local Baptist church in town.
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Old 12-30-2017, 08:05 PM
 
Location: Northern California
436 posts, read 165,799 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Just 2 chews and a swallow. It tastes like 'Only Christians Fundamentalists are Christians. Those who don't believe everything as true, cover to cover, are not Christians. Not much of a mouthful, but hard for me to swallow. ForI me, anyone who believes in Jesus is a Christian, even if he doesn't believe in talking snakes and Shekel -swallowing fishes.
You can pick and choose whatever parts of the complete story of the bible you wish to. But I assure you, if God can have three persons or natures within his divine being, and one comes to earth as a man to shed his blood for our sins so we can live forever with our father in heaven, while healing the blind, lame, and granting eternal salvation, there is something to be saved from.

And that talking snake is just one part of the story.
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Old 12-30-2017, 08:09 PM
 
Location: Northern California
436 posts, read 165,799 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
Funny considering that I was part of that movement, self-labeled as such, for some thirty years.

My denomination was IFCA, Independent Fundamental Churches of America.

I understand what you're asserting of course, that there are "real Christians"(tm) and cultural Christians.

Ironically, that is also the claim of Christian fundamentalists.

Every individual is a member of a group that is the only right one, whether that group is official or exists only between the ears of the asserter or anything in between.

Just food for thought ....
CHRISTians come from the name of CHRIST. CHRIST IS Found in the bible.

I've not done a key word search on the bible aka bible gateway but my bet is the word fundamentalism is not there. Therefore it is not scriptural but of the world. So I cannot, as a Christ Follower, re-define my personhood by the worlds labels. It needs to be based in scripture which is the truth
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Old 12-30-2017, 08:55 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,070 posts, read 8,466,112 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclist1968 View Post
CHRISTians come from the name of CHRIST. CHRIST IS Found in the bible.

I've not done a key word search on the bible aka bible gateway but my bet is the word fundamentalism is not there. Therefore it is not scriptural but of the world. So I cannot, as a Christ Follower, re-define my personhood by the worlds labels. It needs to be based in scripture which is the truth
Everything is "of the world". "The world" is all there is. "The supernatural" is just what people invent when they can't substantiate their truth claims.

Fundamentalism claims to do exactly what you say -- to base everything in scripture and to derive all capital-T Truth therefrom. It's just a system for doing that. Ironic you can point to it as bogus based on nothing more than a non-sequitur claim that the label "fundamentalist" isn't in the Bible, yet you can't see the that your own claims hold no more water.

No one's basis in scripture, including yours, can be demonstrated to be objectively correct and not personal opinion (whether one's own, or borrowed from others).
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Old 12-30-2017, 09:05 PM
 
Location: Western Washington
7,552 posts, read 7,395,824 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclist1968 View Post
I am not aware of any standard you are referring to.
That is my point. With no standard in place we can use to assess whether or not a person is a Christian, we need to simply accept their self-identification.

Quote:
And certainly not any Standard you say Christians cannot agree on.
Again, most people who claim to be Christians are not Christians nor Disciples of Christ.
How do you determine this?

Quote:
See scripture below-

Scripture tells us to identify the saved by their fruits, not just "take their word for it". But if you are not saved, then that wouldn't apply to you anyhow.
Not only doesnít it apply to me, I donít believe scripture has any special revelation or authority in any case. For you to use scripture to back up a point, you need to first demonstrate a reason why I should believe it.
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Old 12-30-2017, 10:34 PM
 
Location: Northern California
436 posts, read 165,799 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
Everything is "of the world". "The world" is all there is. "The supernatural" is just what people invent when they can't substantiate their truth claims.

Fundamentalism claims to do exactly what you say -- to base everything in scripture and to derive all capital-T Truth therefrom. It's just a system for doing that. Ironic you can point to it as bogus based on nothing more than a non-sequitur claim that the label "fundamentalist" isn't in the Bible, yet you can't see the that your own claims hold no more water.

No one's basis in scripture, including yours, can be demonstrated to be objectively correct and not personal opinion (whether one's own, or borrowed from others).
The Bible is truth no matter what excuses you produce. It just is.
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Old 12-30-2017, 10:37 PM
 
Location: Northern California
436 posts, read 165,799 times
Reputation: 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains View Post
How do you determine this?
If you study the bible, you'll come to the same conclusion. Most professed to be Christians but were not. Nothing has changed for today. The bible itself testifies to this being the case.

"wide is the path to destruction, narrow is the gate to salvation and few will find it"

If you do not want believe the bible, then we have no common foundation to be able to discuss it, really.
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Old 12-30-2017, 10:39 PM
 
Location: Northern California
436 posts, read 165,799 times
Reputation: 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains View Post
That is my point. With no standard in place we can use to assess whether or not a person is a Christian, we need to simply accept their self-identification.
I just gave you scripture which directs you upon how to identify a christian.
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Old 12-30-2017, 10:42 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
18,532 posts, read 8,649,008 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclist1968 View Post
The Bible is truth no matter what excuses you produce. It just is.
That's quite the intellectual argument.
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Old 12-30-2017, 10:53 PM
 
Location: Land of the Tonkawa and Kiowa
3,675 posts, read 1,362,133 times
Reputation: 5031
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains View Post
With no standard in place we can use to assess whether or not a person is a Christian, we need to simply accept their self-identification.
There is a standard in place that makes for comparison between people and them being "Christian". It's detailed in the Gospels of the New Testament (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John). However, only God can make the accurate determination.

Yes, we can listen with others say they're this or that. But, as I've pointed out in other posts, just because someone - for example - calls his or herself a Christian, doesn't make it so in God's eyes. If they are hating others, wishing death and murder on others, judging others, and other highly forbidden acts that Jesus spoke out against, chances are, they will not be recognized by God. There is a verse about him saying to effect "Not all who say Lord, Lord will see the kingdom of heaven. They will call out to me, but I will say 'Get away from me, I do not know you'". That's paraphrased, but the basic point.

There are many these days who are highly deluded, completely blind to their actions and ways. They can call themselves bird-people if they want, but if they don't have feathers or can fly... you know. We are known by our actions and lives, not by our words and labels. Genuine Christians will stand out as being reflective of Jesus. They never have to say they are "Christians"; it isn't even necessary. On the other hand, the ones that go around throwing around that label are the ones to watch out for.
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