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Old 01-11-2018, 05:41 AM
 
1,948 posts, read 562,156 times
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4

Don’t forget jesus’s brother lucifer.
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Old 01-11-2018, 07:51 AM
 
383 posts, read 70,662 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
By the way, the OP is not about whether God exists or who or what created the universe but how many Gods exist in the Christian religion.

The simple answer is that there is only One God in the Christian religion that has been thought by many of them as 3 co-equal persons in One Godhead.

We have already discussed all that in the previous posts.
And it is that mumbo-jumbo that causes many to look at Christianity as it is presented today as convoluted, at best.

As you may be aware, it was Constantine who gerrymandered the bishops conference at Nicaea in 325, that determined the "three in one" god figure. Before that, a very significant number of Christians saw it the way Arius did:

Arius's argument was that the Son was God's very first production, before all ages. The position being that the Son had a beginning, and that only the Father has no beginning. And Arius argued that everything else was created through the Son. Thus, said the Arians, only the Son was directly created and begotten of God; and therefore there was a time that He had no existence. Arius believed that the Son of God was capable of His own free will of right and wrong, and that "were He in the truest sense a son, He must have come after the Father, therefore the time obviously was when He was not, and hence He was a finite being",[42] and that He was under God the Father. Therefore, Arius insisted that the Father's divinity was greater than the Son's. The Arians appealed to Scripture, quoting biblical statements such as "the Father is greater than I",[43] and also that the Son is "firstborn of all creation".[44]

source

Many early Christians sects disagreed on the concept of the trinity, so Arius's perspective was not unusual. What is clear is that Christianity as we know it developed, and did not start out with the supposed life of Jesus, whose historicity is certainly a question. The concept of a Christ changed and morphed through centuries, so how could there be one "truth"?
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Old 01-11-2018, 09:03 AM
 
2,922 posts, read 599,615 times
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Originally Posted by normstad View Post
And it is that mumbo-jumbo that causes many to look at Christianity as it is presented today as convoluted, at best.
Yes, such mumbo-jumbo has gone through several changes even since 325. For example, there was a sect of Christianity in Arabia at the time of Muhammad that regarded the Father, the Mother and the Son as the three. So the Father and the Mother and the Son should all be worshiped made sense to them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by normstad View Post
As you may be aware, it was Constantine who gerrymandered the bishops conference at Nicaea in 325, that determined the "three in one" god figure. Before that, a very significant number of Christians saw it the way Arius did:

Arius's argument was that the Son was God's very first production, before all ages. The position being that the Son had a beginning, and that only the Father has no beginning. And Arius argued that everything else was created through the Son. Thus, said the Arians, only the Son was directly created and begotten of God; and therefore there was a time that He had no existence. Arius believed that the Son of God was capable of His own free will of right and wrong, and that "were He in the truest sense a son, He must have come after the Father, therefore the time obviously was when He was not, and hence He was a finite being",[42] and that He was under God the Father. Therefore, Arius insisted that the Father's divinity was greater than the Son's. The Arians appealed to Scripture, quoting biblical statements such as "the Father is greater than I",[43] and also that the Son is "firstborn of all creation".[44]

source

Many early Christians sects disagreed on the concept of the trinity, so Arius's perspective was not unusual. What is clear is that Christianity as we know it developed, and did not start out with the supposed life of Jesus, whose historicity is certainly a question. The concept of a Christ changed and morphed through centuries, so how could there be one "truth"?
Quite a lot developed with the passage of time. It makes sense to look at the situation during the ministry of Jesus. He never mentioned about Christianity or even Judaism. What he did was try to realign the beliefs and practices of Jewish people and fulfill his role of Messiah to the Jewish people, the only believing group (Monotheist) at the time. A Messiah is normally regarded as someone who saves you at the last moment from getting into serious problem by giving you the last warning. That's what Jesus had done, and the rest is history. No more messengers or prophets came into the Jewish genealogy after Jesus.

When I look at how many Gods in Christianity, I can't say that there are 3 Gods in Christianity. That would be going too far. They do believe in one God but the way they describe their God is wrong.

There is only One God (they call the Father). His word comes to humans first through the Holy Spirit (an angel) and then through a human messenger. These three different entities are not one but serve the one purpose in guiding mankind.

The word "son" is not actual "son" of God but someone who is righteous servant of God. This is how there were many people regarded as sons of God in the older days. This idea was changed to a particular begotten Son of God. That was going beyond the limit in religion.

So yes, both Christianity and Judaism are valid as each has only One God.

In the Qur'an, we find that Christianity is not rejected as false religion but Christians are warned not to say "three" but "One".

[4.171] O followers of the Book! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, and do not speak against God, but the truth; the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary is only a messenger of God and His Word which He communicated to Mary and a spirit from Him; believe therefore in God and His messengers, and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for you; God is only one God; far be It from His glory that He should have a son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His, and God is sufficient for a Protector.

I hope this clarifies the question of how many Gods in Christianity from a Muslim's perspective.
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Old 01-12-2018, 01:19 AM
 
Location: Near Wichita, KS
86 posts, read 20,037 times
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There are many lords of the city...Still applies today.

I love you if this has no place in Christianity but there is so much manipulation on religious topics in some places, have to avoid ALL for safety sake...too many threats and scams to fall into any of it. May not be able to leave either.
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Old 01-12-2018, 02:01 AM
 
2,922 posts, read 599,615 times
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Originally Posted by misnomed View Post
There are many lords of the city...Still applies today.

I love you if this has no place in Christianity but there is so much manipulation on religious topics in some places, have to avoid ALL for safety sake...too many threats and scams to fall into any of it. May not be able to leave either.
Actually this is a challenge for those who look for the real Lord and the real bits in any religion. Christianity isn't my religion but I do like to study both Christianity and Judaism alongside Islam. I find much manipulation in each one. Origin of the manipulation is in people rather than original revelations. For example, the Qur'an is the revelation but hadith books have been added by people about two centuries later. The same happened in Judaism (with Talmud) and in Christianity (Gospel of Jesus extended to the whole New Testament).

Religion from God was never that complicated that we couldn't understand it and have so many differences because of it.
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Old 01-12-2018, 02:08 AM
 
2,922 posts, read 599,615 times
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Originally Posted by The Last Amalekite 1Sam15 View Post
4

Donít forget jesusís brother lucifer.
Lucifer is not brother of Jesus.
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Old 01-12-2018, 04:58 PM
 
Location: Boston
2,279 posts, read 703,720 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoreau424 View Post
God is one in totality, but consisting of three personalities, so to speak. Three ways that God can show himself to us: as 1) the Father, 2) the son (Jesus), and 3) the Holy Spirit.

Symbolically, think of one box labelled "God", divided into three sections (father, son, holy spirit). All three make up the totality that is God.

Personally, that's one of the things I enjoy about God. He makes us think a bit different, as in a different dimension. He has unique twists that get us to think outside of the box; outside of the often humdrum, boring, standard-old way that humans think. God is complex, and fascinating.

God is spiritual - as a spiritual essence and life form. He's not religious. Religion is man's way to (feebly) attempt to define and handle God. Religion is about human ways (rules, regulations), and human acts (public prayer and singing), and human structures (church buildings).

Religion isn't necessary to God. He doesn't need any of that. He only needs the purely spiritual connection and communication between him and us. That's where religion becomes a problem, getting between him and us, and confusing the communication he wants directly. Human ways are more familiar to us, so we inevitably tend to get sidetracked by the more familiar human aspects (i.e. religion), than his "quiet voice". Americans in particular are familiar with a loud sort of existence and communication. In the growing and rising noise of life in our country, we are becoming increasingly poor and ineffectual at hearing his voice. He's not going to shout at us, so we only have ourselves to blame. And in the end, we lose, not him.
I am that I am.

Not. 'we are.,'
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Old 01-13-2018, 06:14 AM
 
Location: US
23,783 posts, read 12,254,777 times
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3...
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Old 01-13-2018, 06:18 AM
 
Location: US
23,783 posts, read 12,254,777 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khalif View Post
Lucifer is not brother of Jesus.

Lucifer is Venus...
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Old 01-13-2018, 10:34 AM
 
2,922 posts, read 599,615 times
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Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Lucifer is Venus...
Or Saturn or Morning Star or, as is the case in my garden, flower.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=lu...w=1366&bih=662
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