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Old 01-05-2018, 09:49 AM
Status: "I'm back." (set 19 days ago)
 
2,799 posts, read 593,462 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by granpa View Post
A theist is someone that believes that God exists.
An atheist is someone that believes God does not exist.
The truth is you shouldn't believe anything. You should always know.


If I have a coin with two heads and I flip it then I know that it will land heads.

If it has one heads and one Tails then I don't know what it will land but I still know the probability Is 50/50.

If I don't know how many heads or tails the coin has then I don't know what the probability is but I still know what the Bayesian probability is.

At no point is it necessary to believe anything.
I have no idea what that has to do with the question that I asked.
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Old 01-05-2018, 10:56 AM
 
2,360 posts, read 1,157,273 times
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you asked:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
You've got some interesting opinions here. Why should we believe them?
I answered:
Quote:
Originally Posted by granpa View Post
The truth is you shouldn't believe anything. You should always know.
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Old 01-05-2018, 11:11 AM
Status: "I'm back." (set 19 days ago)
 
2,799 posts, read 593,462 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by granpa View Post
you asked:


I answered:
You should run for office. You have that non-answer thing down pat.
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Old 01-07-2018, 11:31 AM
 
6,433 posts, read 3,508,200 times
Reputation: 628
Quote:
Originally Posted by granpa View Post
A theist is someone that believes that God exists.
An atheist is someone that believes God does not exist.
The truth is you shouldn't believe anything. You should always know.


If I have a coin with two heads and I flip it then I know that it will land heads.

If it has one heads and one Tails then I don't know what it will land but I still know the probability Is 50/50.

If I don't know how many heads or tails the coin has then I don't know what the probability is but I still know what the Bayesian probability is.

At no point is it necessary to believe anything.
Nothing can be "known"...as nothing is infallible, and sure to be objectively true. The info and data that we base what we think we "know" could potentially be faulty...and you can't ever be absolutely certain.
You actually kinda say this yourself...that the best we can ever do is have Faith in the Belief of how things PROBABLY are or will turn out.
So, forget "knowing"...there is no such thing. You can't even know that you can't know!
Not only is "believing" necessary...it's all you got Bro!
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Old 01-07-2018, 11:37 PM
 
2,360 posts, read 1,157,273 times
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Do you know that?
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Old 01-08-2018, 12:24 AM
 
Location: 'greater' Buffalo, NY
2,271 posts, read 1,557,723 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by granpa View Post
you asked:


I answered:
The reality is that the line between 'belief' and 'knowledge' isn't clear-cut. Humans in practice are living inductive reasoning machines--we come to believe things based on experience until we experience them enough times that we 'know' them. Or, we come to believe things based on experience, and then we are told a law, rule, principle, etc that validates this preexisting belief, and we thus now 'know' something. Or, we are told the law, rule, principle, etc, and we thereafter experience things in accordance with/validation of that rule, law, principle as if we'd discovered it ourselves--this last can be what is most often referred to as 'confirmation bias'. Instances of confirmation need not be instances of bias, however--perhaps more often than not, they are not. But that makes it more difficult to discern when they are 'false positives' being driven by our being accustomed to having our 'knowledge'/beliefs reinforced by experience.
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Old 01-08-2018, 07:39 AM
 
6,433 posts, read 3,508,200 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by granpa View Post
Do you know that?
As I said..."You can't even know that you can't know!"
You cannot even be absolutely sure that the Reality you think you "know" isn't just a simulation. And you could never objectively prove that it isn't.
You really just "believe" it is real...and that there is a great probability that it is actually occurring. You could never "know" for sure.
This is why I say that your bias toward Religion based bash on "Belief" is bogus. All anybody has on anything is how much they "believe" it to be valid...because, since nothing is absolutely infallible, anything you think you "know" might not really be the way you think it is.
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Old 01-08-2018, 07:40 AM
 
2,360 posts, read 1,157,273 times
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You don't need to know everything about everything to know some things about some things. And while people may be in inexact the laws of cause and effect are not.
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Old 01-08-2018, 08:43 AM
 
6,433 posts, read 3,508,200 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by granpa View Post
You don't need to know everything about everything to know some things about some things. And while people may be in inexact the laws of cause and effect are not.
Nope. What some claim to "know" as Reality (including all the "laws" and processes that we think control it) may not even be real at all. It could be just a simulation of it.
You, like me, just "believe" it isn't. But I am willing to admit I just believe that, but don't "know" for sure.
In your attempt to criticize those that hold stock in unsubstantiated Religious beliefs...you forgot that nothing we claim to "know" could ever be 100% absolutely objectively known. Nothing is infallible.
Complain that some of what the Religious think is so has so low a probability that they should dismiss it as invalid, and choose that which has a greater probability.
Don't say it isn't necessary to "believe", and that we should only go with thngs we "know"...because all we can do is "believe" we are correct about anything.
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Old 01-10-2018, 05:03 AM
 
2,360 posts, read 1,157,273 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by granpa View Post
A moral person is a person that understands that the universe does not revolve around their ego.
A civilized society is a society whose laws do not revolve around any one person or group of people.
The more a society treats everyone as equals the more civilized it is.



Ancient upper class society was divided into 2 groups.
Soldiers whose job it was to enforce the laws of Civility & Teachers whose job it was to teach the laws of morality.

Religion is the bastard child of both of these groups and therefore combines characteristics of both. I would describe it as militaristic morality.
Militant morality: Do the right thing or we will burn you at the stake.
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