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Old Yesterday, 04:04 AM
 
Location: Country of BIGOTS and HATERS
19,376 posts, read 20,949,382 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
If we look at the father of Cain and Abel (Adam) as the real Lord who favors one son over the other, then to me it is very easy to see what the original sin is. Adam in this story represents the powers of this world plotting the workers, the common men, against each other. Cain had no choice but to offer a blood offering, since that is the only kind that was acceptable. Adam had a taste for wild game, just as his descendant Isaac would as well.

The story is obviously a reference to war. And the powers which bring spiritual brothers (of different nations) against each other.

Do you think that this could be the original sin?
It was and always will be POVERTY.
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Old Yesterday, 04:14 AM
 
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I think the sin of "Adam" in the Cain and Abel story is just a retelling of the fall of Adam in the prior chapter. Adam and Eve both wanted to have control over other people. That is what the Law was all about. Making and writing more and more laws as a way of control. Those in power need to maintain that power which eventually leads to war.

Women are attracted to men with power. Maybe some of them actually HELP their men in their ambitions.

The typical preacher's wife is no different if she and her man can make a living off of the work of the everyday working people. That's just on a smaller scale.
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Old Yesterday, 07:44 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
12,852 posts, read 8,786,070 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matadora View Post
It's absurd that these types of discussions are still occurring in 2018! Talk about being stuck in the stone ages!
Quite so...but here we are with people even claiming that the Earth is flat.
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Old Yesterday, 10:18 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
Theists are many centuries ahead of atheists in believing it was just a story.
Of course, and we never forget that a great many Christians agree with us (or we with them) in regarding Genesis as legend, though fewer of them will agree with us that Exodus is also legendary. It is - and has been for some time - an immediate and urgent battle with Bible -literalist creationists that have made a very dangerous bid to subvert American education, politics and law and in the end science. I suspect that, although we may eventually go to war over Jesus (metaphorically ) at the time of the war on Creationist insurgency, we are allies.
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Old Yesterday, 10:40 AM
 
1,939 posts, read 558,415 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
Adam broke God's Law ( the law of the land of Eden ) the do Not touch, do Not eat from the forbidden tree Law.
So, when trespassing Adam stole God's fruit, then Adam was taking the Law out of God's hands, and placing the Law into man's hands.
Adam set up People Rule as superior to God Rule. Only the passing of time would tell who could govern the best.
Mankind's history proves that rule by man is a failure in bringing Peace on Earth.
Was this a complete surprise to omnigod?
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Old Yesterday, 10:42 AM
Status: "I'm back." (set 18 days ago)
 
2,775 posts, read 586,151 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
That's a popular claim with conservatives, but there is nothing in scripture which supports that claim.
Have you read the Bible?

Mark 10:6 "But from the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female.’"
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Old Yesterday, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
14,917 posts, read 6,891,442 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
Theists are many centuries ahead of atheists in believing it was just a story.
But many centuries behind atheists in understanding that when you admit that some stories in the bible are fiction that it opens up the whole bible to being fiction.
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Old Yesterday, 04:04 PM
 
1,395 posts, read 332,929 times
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The entire story of Adam is allegory. The Adam story functions as documentation and support for the patriarchal system that was already in place. If it could be established that a female human was the source of all evil in the world, it would serve as a justification for a system that treated women as property and second class citizens. It is also the basis for the strange obsession with sexual activity that exists in the Abrahamic religions. Adam, a talking snake and the forbidden fruit are all just McGuffins and literal deux ex machinas designed to provide support for the idea that men should be in charge and that they must be on guard at all times lest they fall prey to the harlots working on behalf of Satan to turn men from the righteous path.
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Old Yesterday, 04:11 PM
Status: "I'm back." (set 18 days ago)
 
2,775 posts, read 586,151 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shorman View Post
The entire story of Adam is allegory. The Adam story functions as documentation and support for the patriarchal system that was already in place. If it could be established that a female human was the source of all evil in the world, it would serve as a justification for a system that treated women as property and second class citizens. It is also the basis for the strange obsession with sexual activity that exists in the Abrahamic religions. Adam, a talking snake and the forbidden fruit are all just McGuffins and literal deux ex machinas designed to provide support for the idea that men should be in charge and that they must be on guard at all times lest they fall prey to the harlots working on behalf of Satan to turn men from the righteous path.
Just saying...I'd believe Jesus over you.
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Old Yesterday, 04:36 PM
 
30,393 posts, read 6,314,645 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
Have you read the Bible?

Mark 10:6 "But from the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female.’"
And also with hands to use tools and weapons, but that only came later on after the Fall, and teeth capable of eating meat, but only after the fall,

And, you will suggest the capacity for sex without marriage - which apparently only came after the fall, and, the argument will go, the inclination for same sex - but only after the fall.

But the things we do after the fall are the things we have in society, war, meat eating, marriage and same sex -relations. Making us as we are or were is not in itself a reason to condemn same -sex.

So it comes down to later Biblical commands, and somewhat arguable they are, too. And aren't there examples of a change of message? At one time the Law was paramount and killing pretty much the way things were done. Then, after the new Covenant, the law was unimportant and Love and peace was the answer.

The Bible is not so much a good reason to argue against same se, but a handy support for a social bias against it - even in Greece and Rome, you may be surprised to hear.

But things change. At one time, kings and slavery were ok, then we had parliamentary and constitutional rule and emancipation, and more recently equal rights for gender and minorities, and more recently sexual preferences. This is social progress and neither the Bible nor the Ick - factor is enough to justify the attempt to try to roll back gender rights. And the increasing view is that Religion is no reason to deny equal rights in the legal and even ceremonial custom of marriage.

That's the way I see it, which is that a couple of Bible passages are nothing like adequate justification - though the anti -gay lobby may believe they are.
The fact is that they have lost the legal battle and are trying to win a court case to give them a loophole to excuse them complying with the law. It won't stop gay marriage - they will simply find another baker or decorate the cake themselves, but it is a legal excuse clause based, I accept, on a doctrinal principle, for some Christians (1) but by no means all.

And you are going to lose, I think. The N Ireland case went in favour of the gays, and the similar cases in the US will go the same way, and they will have to comply with the Law or face the consequences - it isn't forcing them; it is, since (as they say) "You have a choice". And if they get a whacking fine or jail, they will get no more public support than Kim Davis did.

Thus I prophecy, so get used to it.

(1) and a majority of Muslims who, while they are enthusiastic buggers and users of prostitutes are the world's worst religious hypocrites (aside from prosperity gospel scammers) in pretending they don't.
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