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Old 01-10-2018, 08:05 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
14,936 posts, read 6,905,998 times
Reputation: 14523

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
Jesus' forewarns us that there are fake ' weed/tares' so-called Christians growing along with the the genuine ' wheat ' Christians until the harvest time.
As we know a harvest comes at the end of a growing season and Not earlier.
So, we are nearing that harvest time, or the soon coming ' time of separation ' of Matthew 25:31-33,37,40 before Jesus, as Prince of Peace, will usher in global Peace on Earth among persons of goodwill.

Since Jesus believed Adam to be real, gospel writer Luke believed Adam to be real at Luke 3:38, and Ezra believed Adam to be real at 1 Chronicles 1:1, then genuine ' wheat ' Christians also believe Adam was a real person.
God's purpose according to Genesis 1:28 is that we all be descendants from father Adam and mother Eve.
So, according to Scripture we all go back to one of Noah's sons then to Noah and from Noah back to Adam.
Please keep in mind the words of Matthew 7:21-23 because Jesus informs us that MANY would come ' in his name ' but prove false.
That doesn't address the issue at all. It just puts you on one conceited side of the argument among Christians.
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Old 01-10-2018, 08:27 PM
 
4,090 posts, read 1,935,769 times
Reputation: 294
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
That doesn't address the issue at all. It just puts you on one conceited side of the argument among Christians.
When you say ' issue ' do you mean the original sin of Adam?
God gave Adam a Law. Do Not eat from the forbidden tree.
Adam broke God's No Trespassing Law.
By breaking the Law, then Adam took the Law out of God's hands and placed the Law into man's hands.
Adam thus set up People Rule as being superior to God's Rule.
Only the passing of time would tell who can govern best.
Mankind's long history has proven beyond doubt that man has dominated man to man's hurt or injury.
Proven that mankind can Not establish Peace on Earth.
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Old 01-10-2018, 08:55 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
14,936 posts, read 6,905,998 times
Reputation: 14523
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
When you say ' issue ' do you mean the original sin of Adam?
God gave Adam a Law. Do Not eat from the forbidden tree.
Adam broke God's No Trespassing Law.
By breaking the Law, then Adam took the Law out of God's hands and placed the Law into man's hands.
Adam thus set up People Rule as being superior to God's Rule.
Only the passing of time would tell who can govern best.
Mankind's long history has proven beyond doubt that man has dominated man to man's hurt or injury.
Proven that mankind can Not establish Peace on Earth.
You're so hell bent on sticking up for Christianity that you don't even really read the posts you're responding to. Post # 49.
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Old 01-10-2018, 11:16 PM
 
30,418 posts, read 6,323,636 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
It's called reading between the lines. Do you realize many modern scholars think that the Garden of Eden was actually an allegory for the first temple? Do you really not have an imagination? How can you only approach it from such a literal way?
I couldn't care less. Allegory, or symbolism or metaphor, it still gets the telling if not entirely accurate appellation of 'Fairy tale', 'fantasy' or 'Myth'.

The near axiom is 'Metaphorically True' is Theist -talk for 'not true at all'. And the scholars can argue about the metaphorical meaning of Eden. To me, it is simnply a creation myth, loosely based on the babylonian cosmology of the time, as is no more significant than the creation myths of the Zapotecs or Anaman islans.
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Old 01-10-2018, 11:34 PM
 
30,418 posts, read 6,323,636 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
What do many so-called modern scholars have to do with what the Bible really teaches.
Jesus and the Bible writers believed Eden to be a real place on Earth as per Genesis 2:10-14
Luke approached Eden (as in Adam) in a literal way at Luke 3:38.
Ezra approached Adam as a literal person at 1 Chronicles 1:1 naming Adam as the first ancestral person.
Jesus referring to Genesis 2:24 believed Eden to be a real place on Earth in a literal way.
Those modern scholars might think their thoughts, but they do Not teach what the Bible really teaches.
If you say the Bible, with its many harmonious cross-reference verses and passages, are just stories by tellers, then why can't the many so-called modern scholars also believe what they teach are just their stories out of their imaginations.
The OT has a sort of development of credibility running through it.

I did read an attempt to depict Eden as a real place, but to me it's just like Noah's flood and Ark - a stoty loosely based on the Babylonian legends and adapted to suit the Bible -writers.

Now even Exodus and the Conquest is coming to be seen as unhistorical. I don't doubt that there is a historical basis of the early Hebrew state after the 12th c BC but can we doubt that the tales about Sampson, Goliath and the priests of Baal are dubious stories intended to make the Hebres and their God look good, and never mind whether it was true or not.

Thereafter there are histrical events such as the obliteration of the 2 northers states by Assyria, the conquest and Exile, the attack on Tyre by first Nebuchadnezzar and then by Aleander, and no matter whether it did the jews any good or a heap of no good, it was Interpreted as being arranged by their God.

That Hezekia in fact had to give up the Siege and submit and pay tribute was, I argue, simply ignored and a propaganda miracle defeat of Assyria was put in. the Bible instead. But the Big One - the success of the Maccabean revolt, that didn't need a lot of fakery, though after that the less said about Hasmonean rule the Butter, never mind Herodian - rule by Edomites no less!
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Old 01-10-2018, 11:50 PM
 
30,418 posts, read 6,323,636 times
Reputation: 4345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
Jesus' forewarns us that there are fake ' weed/tares' so-called Christians growing along with the the genuine ' wheat ' Christians until the harvest time.
As we know a harvest comes at the end of a growing season and Not earlier.
So, we are nearing that harvest time, or the soon coming ' time of separation ' of Matthew 25:31-33,37,40 before Jesus, as Prince of Peace, will usher in global Peace on Earth among persons of goodwill.

Since Jesus believed Adam to be real, gospel writer Luke believed Adam to be real at Luke 3:38, and Ezra believed Adam to be real at 1 Chronicles 1:1, then genuine ' wheat ' Christians also believe Adam was a real person.
God's purpose according to Genesis 1:28 is that we all be descendants from father Adam and mother Eve.
So, according to Scripture we all go back to one of Noah's sons then to Noah and from Noah back to Adam.
Please keep in mind the words of Matthew 7:21-23 because Jesus informs us that MANY would come ' in his name ' but prove false.
All this is saying in effect is that Real Christians believe palpable and demonstrable nonsense, in spite of the arguments, and those who while remaining firm in their belief in a god and even Jesus, have to make some accomodation with reality or live their lives, eyes screwed shut, fingers in ears and screaming denial, are considered by the Fundamentalists or at least Bible -literalist as Not real Christians.

As the old joke goes - "yes I believe in walking snakes, talking Donkeys and shekel -eating fish. Giving all your dish to the poor.? Oh, thet's not intended to be taken literally".

Appealing to what the Bible -figures are supposed to have believed in order to validate the Bible is a perfect example of a circular argument. I don't for a minute believe that any of what Jesus said in the Bible about Noah or David is what he really said. Indeed the actual Jesus, if he knew his scripture would bnever have used the david and Shewbread argument to debunk sabbath -keeping and the Pharisees would never have let him get away with anyone who did. No these are clumsy arguments by Christians, safe in the knowledge that other Christians would think these were great arguments - because they didn't know any better.

And the Jesus took Noah and Jonak as real doesn't work, even if one believes that Jesus said it. We can prove in the Bible that Jesus either knew that demons didn't cause disease, who had touched him or that he was going to help the Greek -syrian woman, never mind that he COULDN'T be let off Crucifixion or his (God's) whole mission would fail. No, the only answer (aside from the whole thing is rubbish) is that Jesus as man didn't know everything - only what God wanted him to know.

But simply Not Mentioning this is coming to an end because we won't be shut up showing what a wad of crud the Bible really is and what a crock of crap is Christianity.
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Old 01-11-2018, 12:13 AM
 
30,418 posts, read 6,323,636 times
Reputation: 4345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
When you say ' issue ' do you mean the original sin of Adam?
God gave Adam a Law. Do Not eat from the forbidden tree.
Adam broke God's No Trespassing Law.
By breaking the Law, then Adam took the Law out of God's hands and placed the Law into man's hands.
Adam thus set up People Rule as being superior to God's Rule.
Only the passing of time would tell who can govern best.
Mankind's long history has proven beyond doubt that man has dominated man to man's hurt or injury.
Proven that mankind can Not establish Peace on Earth.
But this is simply to repeat the old argument that what happened (according to the tale) was all man't fault and God couldn't have done anything about it. But how does it make any sense if God hadn't intended this outcome in the first place?
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Old 01-11-2018, 12:17 AM
 
30,418 posts, read 6,323,636 times
Reputation: 4345
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
But this is simply to repeat the old argument that what happened (according to the tale) was all man't fault and God couldn't have done anything about it. But how does it make any sense if God hadn't intended this outcome in the first place?
Rather than rehearse the whole argument again, let's have this entertaining animation one more time.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAITI0ULFxg
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Old 01-11-2018, 01:43 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
12,855 posts, read 8,794,812 times
Reputation: 2148
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
But many centuries behind atheists in understanding that when you admit that some stories in the bible are fiction that it opens up the whole bible to being fiction.
Indeed so...and when you admit, as some Christians do, that some of the stories are not true but metaphor or allegory, how do you decide which are allegory/metaphor and which are true? I suppose it comes down to which stories they like and which they don't.

No bum sex = Clearly true
Give all your money to the poor. = Clearly metaphor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
If Adam was Not real then none of those people listed were real persons.
.
Ye gods! I think he's got it!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matadora View Post
Unreal is it not?
...and truly worrying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
God gave Adam a Law. Do Not eat from the forbidden tree.
Adam broke God's No Trespassing Law.
By breaking the Law, then Adam took the Law out of God's hands and placed the Law into man's hands.
Then your god punishes the culprit when the culprit didn't know any better. It's interesting that Christians think that children who die when they are below the age of accountability go to your 'heaven' and yet poor old Adam and Eve, neither of whom had any knowledge of right and wrong (in effect, below the age of accountability) get the bullet and bring destruction on the rest of us who had no input whatsoever into the deal. What a confused and nasty piece of work your Yahweh is.
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Old 01-11-2018, 03:40 AM
 
Location: US
23,678 posts, read 12,226,835 times
Reputation: 1414
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
Indeed so...and when you admit, as some Christians do, that some of the stories are not true but metaphor or allegory, how do you decide which are allegory/metaphor and which are true? I suppose it comes down to which stories they like and which they don't.

No bum sex = Clearly true
Give all your money to the poor. = Clearly metaphor

Ye gods! I think he's got it!!

...and truly worrying.

Then your god punishes the culprit when the culprit didn't know any better. It's interesting that Christians think that children who die when they are below the age of accountability go to your 'heaven' and yet poor old Adam and Eve, neither of whom had any knowledge of right and wrong (in effect, below the age of accountability) get the bullet and bring destruction on the rest of us who had no input whatsoever into the deal. What a confused and nasty piece of work your Yahweh is.
This is what happens when Gentiles try to interpret a Jewish book...
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