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Old 01-13-2018, 09:21 AM
 
2,650 posts, read 1,340,908 times
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A moral person is a person that understands that the universe does not revolve around their ego.
A civilized society is a society whose laws do not revolve around any one person or group of people.
The more a society treats everyone as equals the more civilized it is.

Ancient upper class society was divided into 2 groups.
1) Soldiers (police) whose job it was to enforce the laws of Civility
2) Teachers whose job it was to teach the laws of morality.

Religion is the bastard child that combines characteristics of both to create a sort of militant morality.

The world needs police. The world needs teachers. The world doesn't need religion.
The world needs miltary. The world needs morality. The world doesn't need militant morality.


A theist is someone that believes that God exists.
An atheist is someone that believes God does not exist.
The truth is you shouldn't believe anything. You should always know.

How is it possible to always know? Here is an example:

If I have a coin with two heads and I flip it then I KNOW that it will land heads.

If it has one heads and one Tails then I don't know what it will land but I still KNOW the probability Is 50/50.

If I don't know how many heads or tails the coin has then I don't know what the probability is but I still KNOW what the Bayesian probability is. Bayesian probability is the degree to which you expect something.

At no point is it necessary to believe anything.

Believing = thinking you know.

Instead of "thinking you know" you should instead "KNOW that you think" ( or more exactly "know that you expect")


"Beware," Jesus warned them. "Watch out for the reverse psychology of the Pharisees (Fundamentalist Theists) and that of Herod (Fundamentalist Atheists)".

Atheists arent stupid.
Indeed, like the serpent, they are more crafty than any beast of the field.
They know that people are going to do the opposite of whatever they tell them to do.
That is the real reason why fundamentalist atheists relentlessly attack and ridicule fundamentalism.
Why else would they be so obnoxious about it?
The truth is they don't care whether you become a Fundamentalist atheist or a fundamentalist theist.
Just as long as you become a Fundamentalist like them.

Strip Atheism of all fundamentalism and all you have left is Empiricism.
Strip Theism of all fundamentalism and all you have left is Rationalism

Something is empirical if it conforms to observation.
Something is rational if it conforms to the laws of cause and effect


El-o-Hym = ολω-Hym = All-Human = No ego

El = ολως = All = Infinity
"Human" is used here in the sense of "Logical" as opposed to "Animals" which are illogical.

Logos means "worder" which means "human" (since animals dont speak).
The Logos of God is infinitely Logical (having no ego) and hence an All-Human or El-o-Hym.

John 1:
In the beginning was the Logos, and the Logos was with All-Human, and the Logos was All-Human;

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?...wed_in_frame=0

human (adj.)
mid-15c., humain, humaigne, "human," from Old French humain, umain (adj.) "of or belonging to man" (12c.), from Latin humanus "of man, human," also "humane, philanthropic, kind, gentle, polite; learned, refined, civilized."

This is in part from PIE *(dh)ghomon-, literally "earthling, earthly being," as opposed to the gods (from root *dhghem- "earth"), but there is no settled explanation of the sound changes involved.

Compare Hebrew adam "man," from adamah "ground." Cognate with Old Lithuanian žmuo (accusative žmuni) "man, male person." 


A person with no ego would not require sleep.
A crucified person stood on a small platform with their arms stretched outward horizontally.
As long as they were awake they could support their weight on their feet but as soon as they fell asleep all of their weight went on to their arms causing intense pain which would wake them back up. 

No I am not an All-Human.
I definitely require sleep.


4 stages of human evolution:
1) undomesticated
2) domesticated (Adam means domesticated)
3) all-human
4) autistic


Ages of man:
Gold (domesticated)
Silver
Copper
Bronze
Iron
Diamond (all-human)

http://religion.wikia.com/wiki/User:Granpa
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Old 01-13-2018, 09:27 AM
 
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https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel+2

31 `Thou, O king, wast looking, and lo, a certain great image. This image [is] mighty, and its brightness excellent; it is standing over-against thee, and its appearance [is] terrible.

32 This image! its head [is] of good gold, its breasts and its arms of silver, its belly and its thighs of brass;

33 its legs of iron, its feet, part of them of iron, and part of them of clay.

34 Thou wast looking till that a stone hath been cut out without hands, and it hath smitten the image on its feet, that [are] of iron and of clay, and it hath broken them small;

35 then broken small together have been the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, and they have been as chaff from the summer threshing-floor, and carried them away hath the wind, and no place hath been found for them: and the stone that smote the image hath become a great mountain, and hath filled all the land.
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Old 01-13-2018, 09:53 AM
 
2,650 posts, read 1,340,908 times
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Drug addicts crave their fix.

Cravings are not the same as desires. Desires are normal and healthy and do not cause suffering.

You desire things because they are desirable. You crave things because they are forbidden.

When you think you desire something but in reality you actually just crave it it then you are missing your own mark. There is no logical reason to ever want to miss your own mark.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sin

Quote:
The Biblical Greek and Jewish terms translated as "sin" originate from words denoting the act or state of missing the mark;

the original sense of New Testament Greek ἁμαρτία hamartia "sin", is failure, being in error, missing the mark, especially in spear throwing;[4]

Hebrew hata "sin" originates in archery and literally refers to missing the "gold" at the centre of a target, but hitting the target, i.e. error.[5]
It seems to me that the single biggest mistake that people make is mistaking fire for light. People aim for light but hit fire. They are missing their mark

Last edited by granpa; 01-13-2018 at 10:20 AM..
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Old 01-13-2018, 10:28 AM
Status: "i Guess I made too much sense.." (set 22 hours ago)
 
4,613 posts, read 1,133,275 times
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I find it interesting that you post a "What the Bible really says" post, and the original post doesn't actually quote the Bible. You responded to it twice, and to your credit, you did quote a passage from Daniel...but with no context, and then your next followup has nothing to do with either of the 1st 2 posts.
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Old 01-13-2018, 10:47 AM
 
32,717 posts, read 8,144,298 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
I find it interesting that you post a "What the Bible really says" post, and the original post doesn't actually quote the Bible. You responded to it twice, and to your credit, you did quote a passage from Daniel...but with no context, and then your next followup has nothing to do with either of the 1st 2 posts.
on this at least we can agree. Gramp's posts seem more in the region of free association than meaningful exegesis.
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Old 01-13-2018, 12:17 PM
 
3,308 posts, read 1,177,228 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by granpa View Post



A theist is someone that believes that God exists.
An atheist is someone that believes God does not exist.
The truth is you shouldn't believe anything. You should always know.

How is it possible to always know? Here is an example:

If I have a coin with two heads and I flip it then I KNOW that it will land heads.

If it has one heads and one Tails then I don't know what it will land but I still KNOW the probability Is 50/50.

If I don't know how many heads or tails the coin has then I don't know what the probability is but I still KNOW what the Bayesian probability is. Bayesian probability is the degree to which you expect something.

At no point is it necessary to believe anything.

Believing = thinking you know.

Instead of "thinking you know" you should instead "KNOW that you think" ( or more exactly "know that you expect")
This is not how I think it works.

Here is the angle you may be overlooking.

Quote:
Quote:
A theist is someone that believes that God exists

*OR*

A theist is someone who has FAITH in God.
.
Quote:
Quote:
An atheist is someone that believes God does not exist.

*OR*

An Atheist is someone has NO faith in God
Quote:
The truth is you shouldn't believe anything. You should always know. <~~ This one is laughable.
Before boarding on a plane do you KNOW that you will safely reach your destination? No, you do NOT know. You simply play the game or probability and have a believe and have faith based on you using your intelligence, logic and research.

Faith in God goes along the same lines.

Whether Theist or an An Atheist - They both don't really KNOW whether God exists or not.

They both have their faith that God exists, or does not exist. And this faith is based on their own logic, intelligence and research etc.


Your coin analogy also be reworked when you review it with the bold ending


Quote:
If I have a coin with two heads and I flip it then I KNOW that it will land heads.

If it has one heads and one Tails then I don't know what it will land but I still KNOW the probability Is 50/50.

If I don't know how many heads or tails the coin has then I don't know what the probability is but I still KNOW what the Bayesian probability is. Bayesian probability is the degree to which you expect something.

At no point is it necessary to believe anything.
Yes, Indeed. Events in nature are based on probability.We don't really know ANYTHING. We simply play the game of probabilities in every second of our lives.

Yes, there is in fact a probability that the coin may land vertically and that you can't decide whether it's head or tails.

Now, you tell me, is there a probability that coin will actually not come down and land on the ground? If your answer is NO, then you may need to rethink it.

However, there are 7+ BILLION people on earth, and I have a feeling that almost all of them think about this question AT LEAST ONCE in their life time.

"What is after death"?

So what's the probability of there is God or there is No God?

The could be more refinements but I think the three main answers could be

1 - There is a life after death (in any form that we may or may not know) - which means, having faith that there is a God out there.

2 - There is nothing after death. (We lose our consciousness and that's the end it - absolute void) - Faith, that there is no God.

3 - I don't know.


To start off with, the right answer is # 3.

But the subsequent question then is, Are you worried about it?

If the answer is YES, then the person has to take the journey of research and look for signs, use his intelligence and logic, and then pick between 1 or 2.

If the answer is NO, then there is no point in having any further discussion on this topic with this person.
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Old 01-13-2018, 06:32 PM
 
32,717 posts, read 8,144,298 times
Reputation: 4620
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
This is not how I think it works.

Here is the angle you may be overlooking.

.




Before boarding on a plane do you KNOW that you will safely reach your destination? No, you do NOT know. You simply play the game or probability and have a believe and have faith based on you using your intelligence, logic and research.

Faith in God goes along the same lines.

Whether Theist or an An Atheist - They both don't really KNOW whether God exists or not.

They both have their faith that God exists, or does not exist. And this faith is based on their own logic, intelligence and research etc.


Your coin analogy also be reworked when you review it with the bold ending




Yes, Indeed. Events in nature are based on probability.We don't really know ANYTHING. We simply play the game of probabilities in every second of our lives.

Yes, there is in fact a probability that the coin may land vertically and that you can't decide whether it's head or tails.

Now, you tell me, is there a probability that coin will actually not come down and land on the ground? If your answer is NO, then you may need to rethink it.

However, there are 7+ BILLION people on earth, and I have a feeling that almost all of them think about this question AT LEAST ONCE in their life time.

"What is after death"?

So what's the probability of there is God or there is No God?

The could be more refinements but I think the three main answers could be

1 - There is a life after death (in any form that we may or may not know) - which means, having faith that there is a God out there.

2 - There is nothing after death. (We lose our consciousness and that's the end it - absolute void) - Faith, that there is no God.

3 - I don't know.


To start off with, the right answer is # 3.

But the subsequent question then is, Are you worried about it?

If the answer is YES, then the person has to take the journey of research and look for signs, use his intelligence and logic, and then pick between 1 or 2.

If the answer is NO, then there is no point in having any further discussion on this topic with this person.

That's pretty good. I believe that 'you have to know' being laughable is bang on the money. We can never know - especially on faith, and so we have to bet on probabilities, using the best information and analysis available. If anyone doesn't know what that Is and what it is not, there's no point in me saying it again.

And, yes, I'm not bothered at all about an afterlife. I believe..on eventual conviction after thinking about it - that, if there is an afterlife of some kind, it is for everyone, and no god (much less the religion) is handing out entry -tickets. That is a religious scam and that's what I am fighting - not Theism as such, or even religion, per se, much less an afterlife. But the idea that unless we let them run our lives for us, a worldly organization can threaten to debar us from a life after death.
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Old 01-13-2018, 07:10 PM
 
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Man, you really like that "flip the coin" example. Not a post without it lately.
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Old 01-13-2018, 07:14 PM
 
9,554 posts, read 13,329,141 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
That's pretty good. I believe that 'you have to know' being laughable is bang on the money. We can never know - especially on faith, and so we have to bet on probabilities, using the best information and analysis available. If anyone doesn't know what that Is and what it is not, there's no point in me saying it again.

And, yes, I'm not bothered at all about an afterlife. I believe..on eventual conviction after thinking about it - that, if there is an afterlife of some kind, it is for everyone, and no god (much less the religion) is handing out entry -tickets. That is a religious scam and that's what I am fighting - not Theism as such, or even religion, per se, much less an afterlife. But the idea that unless we let them run our lives for us, a worldly organization can threaten to debar us from a life after death.
This is silly. No one and no thing can do anything to that that is not of the physical and material. No organization, no religion. No god as it is understood by most.
T, you ever read Star Rover? great novel. Might be interesting. It shows greatly how, no matter how much a human is confined physically and socially, his spirit stays free and only for him to use as he wishes.
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Old 01-13-2018, 07:17 PM
 
2,650 posts, read 1,340,908 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
Man, you really like that "flip the coin" example. Not a post without it lately.
And yet judging from the responses here no one has even read it
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