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I've read enough threads that create division among humans in the political forum since Trump arrived on the scene. Racism has been around for a long time, another aspect of humans ability to divide among themselves.
To simply come out and pit believers against non-believers in the battle for who has done the most in the world is a religious example of the same divisional ideology. You want to put believers on a pedestal and non-believers in the pits? I should sit here and look up to believers because they are the do-gooders? Nope.
This election has revealed what Jesus would not do, among his servants.
And the train of lies, distortions, and historical accuracy continues.
Even worse, I have to put all of your quotes into unattributed quote boxes because you couldn't be bothered to format your post correctly.
So, without further adieu, it's time, once again, to right the wrongs being perpetrated by your propagandistic arguments. At least now I'm getting a pretty good idea who you are -- and I now know that your arguments are as much about right-wing politics as they are about religion.
And I've met very few right-wingers on the internet who are capable of actually forming an independent thought. All they ever do, really, is parrot the garbage being spewed by toxic propagandists with an agenda bigger than Texas.
Obviously, whichever thought-control master you've decided to attatch yourself to involves right-wing Christian nationalism complete with truckloads of historical revisionism.
Too bad for you that you've picked a topic that is so easily (if horribly tediously) refuted. Starting with ...
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Everything to do with atheism.
You know, bulambrief -- you can't just SAY something and expect everyone to just take for granted that you're correct. So far you have failed utterly at showing the correlation between a rise in abortions and atheism. Not even close. Not even a little bit. None. Nothing. No.
If you expect to stand even a ghost of a chance with me, you better do more than merely "win by proclamation." Just saying it doesn't make it true -- and I'll be right here to MAKE you prove your assertions. If you can't do so, then guess what ... it shows to everyone following this debate that you're talking out of your ass.
So let's hear it. Explain to us precisely how atheism has any direct bearing on the rise of abortions. Simply giving a bogus general answer like, "Well, gee, a lot of atheists are left-leaning so that makes atheists (and only atheists) responsible for abortions!"
Let's dispense with the sophomoric CRAP and do some real debating for a change. Show us the facts. Because I'm damn well sick of people like you spreading lies and hate toward atheists. I mean, if you're going to hate us, at least hate us for a reason that's actually TRUE. I can at least respect that.
But I have ZERO respect for rank amateurs who crawl into forums just to spread right-wing religious propaganda that contains the same amount of truth as there are snowballs in the Sahara.
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Atheists by in large have a higher rate of population per support in Social Justice (compare rioters who ****ing throw batteries at people and burn cars, versus people who go to church, go home and make no trouble for anyone).
Yeah, this is precisely the kind of ridiculous tripe that I'm talking about. All you're doing is making these massive, broad-brush hasty generalizations that simply aren't true. At all.
This argument is the kind of amateur nonsense that should be laughed at and ridiculed -- because that's all it deserves. It certainly does *not* deserve the time of anyone intelligent and serious about what the discussions they have. If I could and not get banned, I'd just make fun of you. It's all you deserve, as far as I'm concerned.
So ... now atheists are out there rioting, burning cars, throwing batteries and, hell, why not just go the full nine yards and blame atheism for international terrorism, every war that has ever taken place, every unnatural death since the dawn of intelligent life, and even for the rain that spoiled your last outdoor event.
Yes, we atheists are swarming the streets. I bet if you look out your window right now, you'll see gazillions of we atheists destroying everything in our path. But only take a quick glance because if we see you peeking, some atheist sniper will put a bullet in your brain. Because that's just the kind of people we are ... we just "end" people we don't like.
Of course, if ANY of that were even remotely true, surely you could find even a single news article that backs up your stupid claim. Right? Just one?
An article from the Associated Press or one of the major newspapers or news outlets. Surely Fox News would be overjoyed to publish a scathing account of how a mob of atheists went out rioting.
So .. where are they, hmm, bulambrief? Where are those links? Where's the goddamn PROOF? No, simply having a few atheists mingled in with a mob of rioters does not make atheism RESPONSIBLE for the riot. Don't you GET that? Until you show me a rioting group of atheists -- and no one BUT atheists -- I'm calling you out as a liar. Pure and simple. I'll be right here waiting for you to redeem yourself with actual facts.
Oh right, you don't HAVE any. Why? Because what you're REALLY doing is using this forum as a platform to spread your politically motivated right-wing hatred. You don't care at ALL about what's actually true. You just want people to believe whatever you tell them to believe because that's what right-wing authoritarian fascists do. Taking a page right out of Joseph Goebbel's propaganda handbook. I'm guessing too that you ascribe to the alt-right viewpoint, too, complete with racism, misogyny, and the works. I can sorta tell because of what you imply a bit further down in your propaga ... err, I mean your post. Such as it is.
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They have a higher allegiance to leftism, socialism (I want to impress upon you that socialism usually devolves into communism, which is responsible for numerous deaths in Russia, China, and I think it was Vietnam, as well as other countries; even when it doesn't, socialism is responsible for EU and its open borders which has resulted in a spike in rape and murder due to the uneforceability of law in multiple nations). This actually is you.
Gee, where to start. I mean, there are so many things WRONG with just this one paragraph that I actually have to organize my thoughts a bit.
First, yes, many atheists do lean more to the left than to the right. So what. I proudly stand up and admit that I'm a leftist. I'm a quasi-socialist. I'm a Democrat. And I think Donald Trump is the biggest idiot to ever defile the Office of President. Do you think I'm going to hide from what I believe?
The difference is that I can explain precisely why I have taken this political stance -- and I don't just vomit back the bullshyte some left-wing propagandist fed me.
But you know what else? I've never rioted a day in my life. I've never KNOWN anyone who has. I've never met, talked with, or heard of one single atheist who has gone out and rioted either. I've never seen Richard Dawkins or Christopher Hitchens or Lawrence Kraus or Stephen Hawking out there leading a riot. I've not even seen others like Matt Dillahunty or Amon-Ra or Thunderfoot or Nonstampcollector or the Thinking Atheist or ANY of the YouTube atheists out there inciting riots -- or even participating in one.
While I'm sure there have been atheists present at some riots -- I have yet to see a riot by atheists for athiests in order to spread atheism. Until that happens, whether or not we tend to be left-leaning is absolutely IRRELEVANT.
Your debating skills are just as abysmal in this post as they were in the last one.
Second, don't even try to "impress upon me" ANYTHING ... because you've already proven yourself to be an historical hack who doesn't even have rudimentary knowledge of the past. The only history you know are the little pieces and parts you can assemble together to form an anti-atheist narrative. This tactic makes you SOUND knowledgeable to others who aren't well versed in history -- but I am well versed so I see you for what you really are. You're using history as a weapon, distorting it and revising it to suit your political agenda. And it's JUST this kind of dishonesty from the right that caused me to swing left.
By the way ... yes, socialism CAN lead to communism. However, it doesn't HAVE to, and so far, I don't see any sickles and hammers flying over any of the capitals of Europe. And speaking of this -- another big reason why I ended up with leftist viewpoints is because fear-mongering pisses me off. And the right-wingers are experts and controlling people with fear. "Vote for us wingnuts because if you don't, all kinds of horrible things will happen ... like *gasp* socialism!"
Except socialism can do a lot of good for society -- which is a fair sight better than the "everyone for themselves" mentality that rabid capitalists espouse. People like you will wail like a banshee about socialism while simultaneously sending their kids to a public school system that is funded with socialism. They'll happily drive on socialist roads, call the socialist police if a crime has been committed, check books out of their local socialist library, take walks through socialist parks and nature preserves, take dumps in their socialist toilet made possible by a socialist sewage system ... and on ... and on.
In other words, people like you are political hypocrites -- but that's what I've come to expect from the vast, vast majority of right-wingers these days.
Third, I'm getting tired of hearing you bash the EU without bothering to explain precisely what's wrong with it. Your posts are like those kids in high school who try to pad their essays with enormous amounts of fluff without actually saying a damn thing worth reading.
But at least there's the part that I took the liberty of bolding. Remember when I said I'm betting you're not just right wing, but ALT-right-wing? Yeah, this is why. Did you think I failed to notice the racist undertones in that bolded statement?
Sure, let's blame those refugees for all the rapes and murders. Why not. After all, they all come from "sh!thole" countries, as our "esteemed" president said, right? They're savages. Quite unlike Aryan white people. Oh I know ... I'm reading too much into it, right? I don't think so. Not at all. I'm pretty confident that got your number, if you know what I mean. I know what you're all about.
And once again, not a single statistic. Not a single link. Not a single shred of proof that there even IS a spike in murders and rapes. All I'm seeing is your butt cheeks flapping. I've heard better arguments hidden within the noise of a diarrhea fart.
Finally ... what did you mean when you said, "This is actually you." Are you saying that atheists are rapists and murderers now? That atheists are responsible for the spikes in crime? (Assuming there even IS such a thing since so many untruths have come out of your keyboard that I can't trust a thing you say).
IS that what you're saying? I mean, you DID accuse atheists of believing we could just "end" people we didn't like in one of your previous posts. And the ONLY way a person would come to believe in something so stupid is if someone TAUGHT them to believe it. Because I'm betting my bottom dollar that you've never actually WITNESSED an atheist murdering and raping. Which just outs you as a bigot. Gee, what a surprise given that Trump has inspired the worst people America has to offer.
LOL! Which I find ironic. You sit there worrying about open borders -- I worry about the fuggin actual CITIZENS of this country who are already HERE!
Many of THEM are proving to be far more despicable than the immigrants and refugees they hate so much.
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How's that working out?
It's actually working out a damn sight better than when religion controlled everything. A LOT better.
I mean, there aren't any more inquisitions. People are no longer arrested and imprisoned for religious crimes like heresy, apostasy, and blasphemy. We no longer torture prisoners -- well, except the right-wingers keep making arguments for torturing suspected terrorists, though. Go figure. We don't, for instance, bring our children to public executions where the victim's guts are literally torn out of him while he's still alive. We don't burn so-called witches at the stake. We don't keep sending religious Crusades to the Holy Land to wrest it back from the Muslims -- though, I dunno, I sometimes think the right-wingers are trying to turn the "war on terror" into a religious Christianity vs. Islam crusade.
Oh, but that's the extreme stuff. Okay. How about this: We no longer have laws that make laughing on Sunday a crime. We no longer have laws that allow husbands to beat their wives -- or muzzle them if they nag too much. We have the freedom to engage in hobbies and pursuits that we enjoy instead of how it was during the Puritanical colonial era when just about every game was banned and theater performances were illegal. Oh wow, we can even have a pint or a dram ... or a big ol' glass of beer. No thanks to the Christian Temperance League who managed to get alcohol banned for some 20+ years. Because, yeah, that's what religion likes to do -- make all of our choices FOR us. You know ... authoritarianism and fascism, which is what many right-wingers are in to these days.
We can work on the Sabbath if we want to, and we can even go to the store on Sunday because most of them are actually OPEN. Because that's the capitalist way, right? Gotta make that money! And we don't have to worry TOO much about heavy-handed censorship, though religious groups all across the country are unrelenting in trying to ban every book they don't like -- from Harry Potter to art books picturing classical sculptures that show genitalia. Women no longer have to wear impractical skirts and dresses even when doing physical work, hiking, bike riding, climbing a ladder, or whatever simply because Christian prudes think pants are only for men. In fact, thanks to liberalism, as a woman, I can actually have a career, make my own money, and not have my entire worth as a human being tied to being married to a man.
I mean, seriously, do I need to continue? How many data points do I need to prove my case?
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Without a moral authority or prescribed religious value system, humans default to two extremes: nihilism or legalism. Nihilism is "nothing matters" (in which case, society doesn't matter either, let's go kill ppl), legalism is following rules for the sake of following rules.
Do you have even one fuggin thing that proves what you're saying? AT ALL?
By the way, I commend you on being able to perfectly demonstrate the "false dilemma" fallacy. Because, you see, there are more than just two choices ... more than just "nihilism" and "legalism."
Atheists have been saying again and again and again and again (infinitum ad nauseum) that we derive our morality from empathy. Yeah, that THIRD choice which you convenienly (and dishonestly) omitted. You've been around this forum long enough that I KNOW you've heard us talk about empathy before ... yet here you are, ignoring what we atheists actually say and instead you insist on TELLING atheists what we believe.
And you don't even have a simple link to back up what you're saying, anyway. It's all just ass-talk. All fluff and no substance. It's like an American strutting up to a Tibetan and TELLING the Tibetan what he believes, what his values are, where his morals come from --- and it doesn't even matter to the American that the Tibetan is saying something completely different. Because, yeah, the American knows better than the Tibetan about what Tibetans believe.
Well, that's what you're doing right now ... the same thing. You don't have the right to tell us what we believe. It is up to US to tell YOU what we believe, and if you're too bigoted, prejudiced, or brainwashed to accept what we say, then you're not worth talking to. I don't even want to breathe the same air.
One last time -- no, we don't fall into either nihilism or legalism. That's YOUR belief ABOUT what atheists believe. But it's no closer to reality than earth is to the edge of the universe.
Go find another hobby, for crying out loud. Fly a kite. Walk a dog. Take up gardening. Do SOMETHING other than debate ... because you suck at it. Worse still, you're spreading toxic, poisonous garbage.
Especially considering legalism is actually psychological projection foisted upon we atheists. Because religion is inherently authoritarian, inherently fascistic. It is the Christian, especially Christians llke YOU, who kneel to authority. It's just that you kneel to some ancient Bronze Age tribal god that doesn't exist -- so it cannot directly enforce any laws.
So ... because SOMEone here on earth has to enforce laws (lest you end up with a lawless society), Christians like yourselves set up a theocratic government that enforces primitive and immoral religious laws that end up proving more harmful to society than no laws at all -- and certainly worse than the small amount of "leftism" that currently exists in the USA.
As I've said at least two dozen times before: There has never EVER been a society ruled by religion or the whimsy of a god that was also free, democratic, egalitarian, and peaceful. Religious societies have invariably been oppressive, cruel, misogynistic, unjust, dictatorial and authoritarian, and warlike. Always. Every single time.
The idea of kneeling to a God as the only arbiter of morality in modern times would be instantly fatal to that society. Even in America, just how many of our Constitutionally guaranteed rights can be found in the Bible? I can't think of a single one. Not a one.
In fact, the only reason why our morality has gotten better and stronger is because we've had to dispense with the primitive, superstitious, and authoritarian moral system that the Bible offers. No more murdering non-virgin brides on their wedding night; no more stoning to death of rebellious children. No more death sentences for accused witches (and the Bible doesn't even explain how to identify a witch, leaving it to *ahem* legal authorities to make it up on the fly). "Uh, is she a witch?" "No idea, Bob. But she has a funny hair-do." "Yeah, she does at that. Well, that's good enough for me. Let's burn that witch!"
We've even managed to get out from under 5,000 years of slavery -- not because of the Bible, but in spite of it. If we allowed religion and god to be the "authority figure," we would have every right in the world to own slaves. In fact, we could torture people, have sex with children, wage aggressive wars, and all kinds of other "wonderful" things. Because your "authority figure" ... your God ... is silent on those issues, and I doubt very much that anyone is going to wake up and find the Holy Bible 2.0 under their pillows.
One of the inherent problems with allowing silent gods and ancient books to form a rigid, absolutist moral code and system of laws is that then society -- and civilization itself -- cannot advance or evolve. It would be perpetually stuck in the same rut of history, doomed to stagnate forever until it dies out or is conquered by a more progressive, more evolved society.
This is precisely why the Dark Ages lasted for 700 years! Religion had a stranglehold on Western civilization; there was virtually no advancement, very few inventions, very few major discoveries, technology stayed the same, and the heinous and cruel moral system of Medieval Europe kept everyone living in fear. THAT is what happens when Gods are substituted for human ingenuity, imagination, and yes, human evolution.
The nonsense you're pushing is just right-wing propaganda with no historical examples ... at all ... to demonstrate the truth of it. Not a thing. No atheist hordes raping and murdering. No jails filled with atheists. No atheists pacing their bedrooms at night wanting so very much to murder for the fun of it, but being restrained by law. Nope. Those things don't exist. But ... who cares when you've attached yourself to a fascist religious group which is trying to re-write reality. I mean, what the hell, right? If you can't be correct in an honest way, you just change the facts and lie. Aren't Christian morals just peachy? We atheists call it "Lying for Christ." Personally, I've had enough of it.
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There is an extended reason why legalism is actually harmful but since you won't get it, it's use this one. When you kneel to legalism, you also kneel to state authority. Higher taxes, they take away your guns and your rights, and they shoot you.
ROFL! Guns.
Hahahaha. Oh my god. I actually had to take a break just now because my stomach was hurting from laughing so hard. In fact, I even called a friend to have her log in and look at your post -- because it was so goddamn funny!
GUNS!
Holy Christ on a piece of toast.
GUNS!
As if owning guns would be a primary concern of Jesus .... right? RIGHT? This is just one example of the complete and utter failure of conservative Christianity in America.
It's just histerical in ways a person like yourself could never fathom ... that you just can't get through a post without whining about the evil government taking your guns away. I mean, seriously, what the fug? Do you lie awake at night with all your guns handcuffed to your arm, peeking out the window, waiting for the Gun Snatch Squad to arrive?
Another reason why this is so histerical is because, there you are, accusing atheists of being violent psychopaths who have no care for others -- yet YOU are the ones clinically obssessed with your weapons of death and violence. I've even heard right-wingers like yourself gleefully bragging about the horrible things they'd do to a burglar -- even if it was just some scared kid, a runaway, looking for some food.
Oh yeah ... they describe their guns in exquisite detail with all the attachments and accoutrements -- laser sights, rangefinders, scopes, illuminated crosshairs, hollow point bullets, 30 round clip, solid oak stock, why, one of them even had their name engraved on it. And then they proceeded to giddily -- yeah, giddily -- describe in gruesome detail how, "oh yeah, I'd shoot that sucker right in the head. No, no, I don't want to just wound the sombeetch. He needs to DIE for entering MY house, goddammit, cuz this is 'Merica and I'm a Christian, y'see, and God would want me to send that criminal right to his doorstep for judgement. Why, I'd chase that little *bleep* down and shoot him in the street if I had to. And if I wounded him accidentally, I'd walk right up to him and drill him right between the eyes!"
Oh yeah, that's no joke, no exaggeration. On other forums that were more geared toward politics, I used to stumble into these right-wing, redneck murder fanatasy parties all the time.
So don't you dare try to come to THIS forum and preach your moral superiority over we atheists ... because that's a check reality can't cash.
Okay, moving away from guns ... we then enter what my friend and I call ... Whackyland!
"Whackyland" is what we call the bubble of alternate reality in which far too many right-wingers dwell in this day and age, a place where facts, logic, ethics, morality, integrity, and principles simply do not exist. At all.
And bulmabriefs, you managed to give a wonderful example of just what it is Whackyland is all about.
Because, you see, you claim that "kneeling to state authority" is inherently harmful, yes? Yes, it's written right there in black and white. Except the problem with your simplistic and erroneous, blinkered right-wing cultist viewpoint is that *ahem* the extreme of the left-wing ideology is anarchy. In other words, the complete LACK of state authority, the complete LACK of government. One of the foundations of left-wing ideology is to allow people to make their own choices, to have the FREEDOM to make those choices, EVEN if those choices are bad ones, without the government banning, censoring, and using the threat of force, violence, imprisonment, or exile in order to control the population.
The extreme of the right-wing ideology is authoritarianism, fascism, and unquestioning obedience to state authority -- you know, the same authority you JUST said is so harmful. The further to the right a person is, the more government control they actually want. Christian right-wingers, of course, have been trying for decades -- sometimes successfully sometimes not -- in using state authority to enforce their draconic, prejudicial, Bronze Age religious laws. In recent times, nothing made this ideology so apparent as right-wing Christians insisting that state authority FORCE people to obey the Bible by banning same-sex marriage. No, no, no one should have the *choice* to sin if they want. Absolutely not. You will obey the state authority which becomes the mouthpiece for religious tyranny.
The ONLY time right-wingers caterwaul about too much government is when the government does something they disagree with. THEN you get to hear all kinds of empty platitudes about freedom, government running our lives, and all the rest of it. But it is one big LIE. People like you aren't interested in less government. People like you are only interested in heavy-handed government authoritarianism AS LONG AS the government is doing your bidding.
Oh, and as far as increased taxes are concerned -- guess what: Do you, bulmabriefs, enjoy living in a First World nation? Or would you rather live in a Mad Max type cesspool where there are no roads, no schools, no libraries, no parks, no museums, no sewage, no water, no electricity, no bridges, no dams, and, oh yes, no military. Which is it?
Because while no one really LIKES paying taxes, without them, we will no longer be able to maintain First World status. And ... as our infrastructure crumbles and our military collapses and our children run the streets feral, you'll wonder what went wrong and, incredibly enough, BLAME THE LEFT for it all.
No, no, what you people are REALLY saying is that you don't want to pay taxes to actually HELP your fellow American citizens. Now, if we go $1.5 trillion deeper in debt to help rich people become even richer, you don't have a problem with that. And if we spend more money on our military than all of our enemies and major allies combined, you don't have a problem with that, either. But to spend some money to help your neighbor afford chemotherapy to prevent him from dying of cancer -- HELL NO, I'M NOT PAYING FOR THAT! You'll champion an administration that spends trillions on warfare, the art of killing people you don't like, but you'll vilify an adminstration that tries to do anything that directly helps the American people.
This is one of the reasons why your ideology is morally bankrupt -- and the fact that you CLAIM to be Christian, as well, just makes the entire modern right-wing paradigm as disgusting as any evil civilization that has ever arisen. You and your political mores are directly responsible for Christianity losing ground to other religions, including atheism and non-affiliation. Because THOSE people recognize the moral bankruptcy of your position.
As a result of this push-back -- and due to the horror of Democrats electing a black man to the presidency -- the Republican party of today is no longer a political party but a religious cult. No, not a Christian cult, but a Trump cult. This is just another grave example of right-wing Whackyland behavior in that anyone who has fallen for this cult mentality around someone as incompetent, sociopathic, and oafish as Trump sincerely has no principles. How anyone can see the worst president this nation has ever had to this day and think he is the BEST president shows such a complete and total lack of objectivity that only those in a state of political brainwashing could be that daft.
And oh yes, the religious right has been pumping out its Whackyland "alternative fact-based" propaganda for quite some time now -- and LOL YOU fell for it, bulmabriefs. Oh, I know you won't believe me because you're in it up to your neck. You're as brainwashed as any citizen of North Korea. I can tell simply by the never-ending stream of falsehoods you've been saying about atheists. ONLY someone brainwashed -- TAUGHT -- to believe in things so flagrantly false and so easily disproved would crap your turds of bullshyte all over this forum like you have.
It's as if you're 10 feet from shore in a fog bank -- and here I am, standing on the beach, screaming to you that land is THIS way -- but you'd rather drown because you can't see the land from where I am. THAT is you, bulambriefs. You'd rather drown in an ideology that teaches you to "lie for Jesus." If God truly does exist, as you say, and your "moral authority" is real, you, not I, will have to answer for your stupidity, gullibility, and refusal to seek the truth no matter where it leads. You.
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But far more likely are wars for land or wealth or the rulership of a country.
Meh, I went over this issue in my last post to you. No need to lead your ass to another pool of water just so you can stand there and look at it while you die of dehydration, right?
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But religious beliefs also play a role.
Yes, yes they do. But a far less significant one.
No, that's only what you WANT to believe -- because you don't want to admit to yourself that religion is actually the most common reason for warfare throughout the centuries. In other words, you have it all in reverse. Land, wealth, and ruleship do play a role -- but quite often, wars break out over who has the RIGHT to possess the land, wealth, and rulership. And guess what, that dilemma usually only surfaces one one religious faction sees their rival religious faction with all the ... land, wealth, and power. GET IT?
You're so focused on what nations DO that you've ignored -- willfully or not -- the REASONS why they do it. Within the reasons for war, you'll usually find religion at the heart of it. You might have to peel back a few layers of political rambling, but the REASON why two nations are enemies in the first place often comes down to religion.
Don't believe me? Ever hear the phrase "Godless communism," bulmabrief? Yep, even the damn Cold War had religious undertones. In fact, it's probably one of the reasons why you hate socialism so much -- even if you're not consciously aware of it.
And, what I find to be a veritible LAUGH RIOT is how, here you are, viciously bashing atheists in ways I've never bashed Christians, all the while saying "duh, doy, derp! Religion has very little to do with conflict and wars, derrrrr." Don't you get it? Can't you see it? Or are you really that far gone into the realm of Whackyland?
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It was estimated that of wars clearly involving wars between religions, roughly 4% were Muslim. I think 1% were Christian, and the other 2-3% were all the other religions. This is quite literally a drop in the bucket! This also means that the other 90 something % were caused by purely secular.
Hahaha, now I KNOW that's false. Cite your goddamn source for once. When you present actual numbers, percentages, and figures, I want to know where they came from. Otherwise, why should I believe what comes out of your mouth? Anyone can sit around making up numbers -- especially (LOL!) when you claim that 90% or more of all wars were for secular reasons. Hahahaha, holy crap.
As an historian listening to this utter garbage, I'm finally beginning to know what scientists feel like when confronted by anti-evolution jackasses who swallowed all of the Christian-apologetic junk science then plop themselves onto a forum and pretend to be experts in "Christian science" -- as if such a thing even existed. I just so rarely see such acts of flagrant, blatant historical revisionism.
And I'm guessing that, somewhere in that part of your brain where rationality, logic, and truth still glimmers like a faint ember in a spent fire, even YOU realize what you're saying is a crock of shyte, which is why you haven't cited a single source for anything you've said.
Oh, I admit, I don't always cite all of my sources, either, but I can ... and would if someone actually asked. (Most people by now know not to call my bluff because I WILL present the source for every fact I present, and always have. I've made more than one person look incredibly stupid when they accused me of bullshyte only for me to prove my facts with actual evidence.)
But I think you KNOW that your sources are crap. I mean, if "International Cops for Christ" is any indication of where you're finding your information ... LOL! Yeah, you're doomed. Because a bunch of alt-right cops wanting a Christian authoritarian state is where I always go for ALL of my historical knowledge. *rolls eyes*
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Let's review.
Review what, exactly? You haven't presented any evidence. Just a truckload of unsubstatiated and factually incorrect opinions and a few uncited statistics that you could have pulled out of your ass for all I know.
(Skip the next post. I'll explain why there are two posts in the second post)
In the last 150 years, we have had increased secularism. In the last 150 years, we have also had three regimes dangerous to human life: Naziism, communism, and globalism. The latter is more self-destructive than other-destructive, but globalist countries are still unsafe to live in.
In the last 150 years, we've also seen the rise of alt-right conservative Christian politics. Wow, maybe they're responsible for those three regimes (by the way, if you start claiming that Nazism was secular, I swear to your God I'm going to kick you so goddamn hard that I'll happily take a ban for it -- well no, because I have no doubt someone of your moral character (or lack of it) would deliberately say Nazism was secular just to get me banned).
Let's see, how many logical fallacies are you up to now? I wish I would have kept track. So, let's see...
1). Post hoc ergo proptor hoc: a faulty assumption that, because there is a correlation between two variables (the rise of secularism happened at the same time three dangerous regimes existed), one caused the other (secularism must have CAUSED those three regimes to come into existence).
In truth, one of the biggest reasons secularism made it's big debut was because the horror, destruction, and misery of WWII and the Holocaust caused a LOT of people to lose their faith in God. In other words, those three regimes caused the rise of secularism -- the rise of secularism did NOT cause those three regimes. It's this kind of thing that makes your logic dishonest, disingenuous, and flat-out wrong.
In fact, one of the quintessential reasons why the United States is the only Western nation to have the same degree of religiosity as an impoverished, uneducated nation is because the United States was the ONLY Western nation that never experienced directly the horrors of total war. This is evidential to the premise I laid out above -- that those three regimes caused secularism to flourish and we, here in America, who never experienced those horrors, came away from the war actually believing we had been BLESSED by God, and only then did we start hearing jingoistic phrases like "American exceptionalism" or shoving Christianity in our faces by putting God in our Pledge -- which, by the way, our non-Christian Founders did NOT want in the Pledge. Because America is NOT a nation "under God." Only people are "under whichever God they personally believe in." I'm not under YOUR God, after all.
It's like amateur hour around here these days ...
Steeeerike one!
2), Fallacy of composition: assuming that something true of part of a whole must also be true of the whole.
Right, because isn't it obvious to everyone that ALL atheists are the same based upon the very worst members of our group? Of course, right? This is why secularism causes all the bad stuff while religion is 90% innocent within the context of all world struggles. (Even typing something so stupid made me nauseous).
Steeeerike two!
3). Argumentum ad infinitum: repeating the same bullshyte over and over again until those who disagree with you get sick of repeating their refutations and simply give up
I've heard all your arguments before. I've demolished them all before. And I'm sick of the fact that people like you dismiss everything I have to say immediately without even stopping to consider that yeah, maybe I am actually correct.
In fact, the ONLY reason why I'm enduring the pain I'm in right now to counter you is that I rarely see ALL of these stupid arguments presented in one place by one person in just two posts. Plus, your kind of anti-atheist rubbish needs to be laid low whenever it dares to walk in the free air of America. While it's still free. If people like you get into power, there won't be a free oxygen or nitrogen molecule from Bangor to Seattle.
And, while I know others have countered you as well, yours are the kind of hateful post filled with so much false propagandist rhetoric that I'll never be satisfied until I put you in your place myself. It just needs to be done if atheists are to keep our rights -- yeah, the ones you so arrogantly claim were given to us by Christians. What a steaming pile of fly-infested, corn-saturated goat manure THAT assertion is.
And I'm not even going to give you a strike on this one because, yeah, the whole "infinitum ad nauseam" fallacy is just too easy.
So ... baaaaaall!
Here we are, bottom of the ninth, your last batter is at the plate, and we're at 2 strikes and 1 ball. Gee, I wonder what will happen next?
4). False Attribution fallacy: an advocate appeals to an irrelevant, unqualified, unidentified, biased or fabricated source in support of an argument.
Like *snicker* using International Cops for Christ as an authority on history. *cackle*
I'll let that one slide, as well.
Baaaaaall two!
5). False Dilemma fallacy: two alternative statements are held to be the only possible options when in reality there are more.
Like when you made the ignorant claim that without a God telling us how to be moral, we atheists MUST fall into ONLY one of two states: nihilism and legalsim.
Except you just blatantly ignored the fact that we've told you a thousand times that our morality is based on EMPATHY -- and that has served us in a far greater capacity toward doing good than simply following orders you found in an ancient book.
Of course, acknowledging that our morality comes from our capacity for emapthy only makes YOU look ammoral and hard-hearted so (LOL!) yeah, it stands to reason that you would turn a blind eye to what we actually say we believe and instead attempt to TELL us what we believe. What fuggin' arrogance on your part ... ya know?
6). Incomplete comparison fallacy: insufficient information is provided to make a complete comparison.
Your two posts that I've responded to is riddled with this fallacy. I see it *everywhere*.
Steeerike three. You're out. Good-bye, thanks for playing. No less than six fallacies so far -- and that's without me actually going back through your posts to find even more.
Anyhow, enough of this. Not because I can't find more of them, but because I just want to get this damn post over with.
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I'll just leave this link here, showing how atheists can easily have all the worst traits of the Puritans.
So what? No one is saying atheists are all perfect little angels. Not at all.
So yes, atheists CAN easily have all the worst traits of the Puritans. But do they? And how many of these types of atheists do you think there are? Do you see these atheists in public office? Have you ever seen one as president? How about one sitting on the bench of the Supreme Court?
I hope you can see where I'm going with this. I really couldn't care less about the behavior of individuals within a certain group ... because I refuse, unlike you, to run afoul of ... which fallacy was it again? Oh yes, the Fallacy of Composition. It's just too easy -- in fact, it's a downright lazy way to debate. Anyone can pluck the absolute worst atheist or the absolute worst Christian and scream, "See? They're ALL like that!"
Trouble is, you have already decided to accept this fallacy as being true. One of the more obvious examples is by pointing to figures like Stalin or Mao and claim that all atheists are sociopaths who will just "end" people they don't like (remember, you SAID that, and I'm STILL pondering if getting banned to bash you is worth it or not -- because that was a serious accusation.) and then you took it a step further by claiming ALL secular societies are doomed to horrible, badly-run communism led by clinically diagnosed paranoids, at which point millions will be killed by nihilistic atheist leaders who failed to take their marching orders from a 4,500 year-old tribal god worshiped by a wandering band of goatherders back in the Bronze and/or Iron Age.
I know you didn't actually say ALL of that, but you implied it heavy-handedly enough to extrapolate what you failed to say.
Unfortunately, YOUR people -- blinded by stupidity and a religion that actively campaigns to avoid teaching children higher order thinking skills -- are coming dangerously close to obtaining real power in this country. And then we'll be led, quite literally, by a theocratic, fascistic idiotocracy. You're in no real danger from us because we actually believe in freedom.
Oh sure, sometimes you might hear about some overzealous atheist who did something horrible -- with monumentally egregious consequences that will ripple across the fabric of history -- like, making a college hotel take the Bibles out of their drawers. OH ... MY ... GOD ... how awful. I mean, I know just how much that will affect billions of Christians everywhere!
But YOU people -- you are trying to do things that really DO ripple across the fabric of history. And not in any good way. Just be careful you know who you're really supporting. I do not find it a coincidence AT ALL that this sudden rise in Christian fascism and authoritarianism is happening JUST as the last of our WWII veterans and Holocaust survivors are dying -- so there will be no one left to personally give witness to the horrors and dangers of fascism, absolutism, authoritarianism, and all the hatreds, violence, and injustice they invariably bring.
You stand warned.
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No, you don't get to claim credit for this. France, who largely is a secular country had similar ideas, but ultimately that arose out of the French Revolution, but what they don't like to talk about is that the French Revolution didn't actually produce anything of value. Yay, the metric system! Yay, a bunch of stupid months! Oh, and look, everyone gets to work 10-day weeks because we don't want to be Christian. Do you want to work a 10-day week? No? Then don't tell me how great a secular state is, because that's the first thing they did.
So now you're an expert on French history now, too, I see.
And you received your post-grad degree in history from .... where, exactly?
I can tell you're lifting all this crap from right-wing Christian websites. These aren't YOUR thoughts. You're just vomiting up the opinons of other people and passing them off as expert-driven facts.
Now, you can get away with doing that, usually, if there are no true experts in your audience. But if there IS an expert in the audience, well ... *wave* hello, bulambriefs. I happen to be a credentialled historian. Pleased to meet you.
Plus, your religious agenda is so disgustingly transparent that I almost -- almost -- feel embarrassed for you. So, the French Revolution produced nothing of value, is it? Which one of those propagandist websites told you THAT line of guff? Sure, things like the Declaration of the Rights of Man or the beginning stages of dumping absolutist monarchs for actual democracy or concepts like those outlined in the "tennis court oath" that, and other things were completely valueless, right?
No, my painfully obvious and transparent friend. What YOU don't like to talk about is that the French Revolution was, by and large, a secular revolution, and that just grinds your gears, doesn't it. You just can't STAND the fact that a nation like France was able to throw off the yoke of backward religious authoritarianism and managed to come up with the same ideas as our Founders -- except -- no gods. Yep, no gods, no religions -- and that really ticks you off.
And RIGHT there is your ulterior motive for waving a dismissive hand and pronouncing with NO historical authority, "Oh, but the French Revolution produced nothing of value!" However, if that event had happened within the context of Christianity, you'd be trumpeting it as one of the most pivotal events in Western history.
Like I've said before -- I'm on to you. Big time.
I mean, seriously. Look how pissy you suddenly became simply because the French adopted a 10-day week to avoid dealing with the Christian Sabbath. WOW! If that alone doesn't give yourself away, I don't know what would. Haha, my god, bulambriefs. This whole tirade of yours is utterly pathetic.
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No straw men here! McCarthyism is taught in history books as being a "scare" but there are entire films showing trials of communists in Hollywood and other regions. Around this time, leftists helped set up income tax (in Feb 1913, before that people paid no federal income tax at all).
Wow, now you're defending McCarthyism? What next? A Hitler salute? Jackbooted Christian warriors goosestepping down Pennsylvania Avenue?
And during the McCarthyism era, America actually had political prisoners. Yeah, just like every other fascist regime. Putting people in jail for their political views. Isn't right-wing freedom just grand? NOT.
The problem you and others like you have is that you don't understand what freedom is -- and you take it for granted every day. Which is why you're so eager to get rid of it. You no longer appreciate it, value it, or love it. Instead, you want freedom to involve ONLY the freedom the right-wingers want everyone to have. Look like us. Act like us. Believe as we do. Worship our god. Accept our political superiority. And if you deviate from the narrow line we've given you to walk, we'll slap irons on your wrists and haul you off to the deepest hole we can find.
Yep, those are the modern alt-right Christian values present in today's dying America. Oh, and one other thing. This bogus claim about the wonderful merits of Joe McCarthy is one of the bedrocks of historical revisionism. All you're doing is re-writing history to make the injustices and intolerances and prejudices of the far-right look appealing, justified, and morally correct.
But to everyone else who is reading this -- bulambrief is reciting a LIE.
Oh, and another LIE that bulambrief is spewing: Americans paid income tax during the Civil War and, generally, at other points in US history when the government needed money for something -- especially wars. However, the income tax became permanent, as he said, in 1916. THAT is true enough.
But he said "around this time, lefitsts helped set up the income tax." Okay, two things wrong with this stupid sentence. First, no, it wasn't "around this time" (referring to the McCarthy era). I don't consider 1916 and 1954 to be around the same time. Yeah, nitpicky, but it demonstrates bulambrief's sloppy attention to detail.
Secondly, if "lefitists" HELPED set up the income tax -- who the fug HELPED them? Aliens from Zeta Reticuli?
Never mind that the 16th Amendment passed with a vote of 314 to 14. I mean, holy shyte, there must have been only 14 right-wingers in the whole government back then! Wow!
Even so, I'm tired of moochers like you who think taxes are some kind of punishment. Leftists understood that, if the government doesn't have an adequate income, America couldn't progress. I mean, THINK about it. What was America like in 1916? No interstates. No healthcare. No military. No social safety net. Few paved roads. The electrical grid was in its infancy. Gee whiz, Mr. Genius bulambriefs -- the federal government had rather few expenses in those days.
Now, sure, we could STILL live like that -- with nothing. Of course we'd be classified as a Third World nation and we'd resemble those cesspool places we see pictures of in National Geographic and think, Damn, I'm glad I live in America and not there.
But you don't want to PAY for any of those things. Nope. Though I suppose we could just sit back and let God build our nation. Yeah, let's do that and see how far we get. You're as big of a moocher as any welfare queen.
My advice to you is to pack up and move your mooching ass to antarctica -- or somewhere else where you can be anti-social and worry only about yourself. Leave civilization to actual citizens and not freedom-hating, tax-evading, moochers like yourself. Just a friendly word of advice. Or ... not so friendly, as the case may be.
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Then they pushed for civil rights privileges (not to be confused with actual equal rights, which blacks and women never got) which boils down to welfare state.
That's right ... loud and proud. In fact, we didn't go far enough in creating a welfare state. The secular humanist states over there in the EU -- that you hate so much without ever really explaining why -- are doing things the right way. Unlike here in the States where our health care system resembles something you'd find in Auschwitz rather than in a liberal democracy.
Your real motivation in all of this is simple greed and selfishness. You can cloud the issue with bullshyte historical revisionist crap, pretending to have superior morals because you worship a tyrannical wargod from the ancient past. You can pretend to have the country's best interests at heart, thump your chest about freedom and democracy, and pretend to be an American.
But once you blow away the cloud of stink that surrounds your bankrupt moral position, all you really are is, as I've said, a selfish, greedy person who more resembles a sociopath than any atheist I've ever met. Which doesn't surprise me, really, since "I know you are, but what am I?" is one of the most popular rebuttals to left-leaning indictments of right-wing failures. Psychological projection. "Nuh uh, YOU'RE the fascist!" "Nuh uh, YOU'RE the one taking away our freedoms." "Nuh uh, YOU'RE the one using religion as a weapon... err wait, no ... crap, I didn't mean to say that."
Pathetic. Pathetic. Pathetic.
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All of these are propped up with big-state legalist atheists who favored a system like communism.
LOL! I dunno anymore. I mean ... sometimes things just get so stupid that all one can really do is shake her head and walk away.
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We'll make you pay for some theoretical starving people.
Theoretical. Theoretical? Seriously?
Well, folks, there you have it: there's your vaunted right-wing Christian moral system in a nutshell.
The idea here is to simply pretend that starving people don't exist. I'm sure that, in Whackyland, there really ARE no starving people. And the sky is purple and ducks drive cars -- and any other crazy nonsense bulambrief needs to say in order to act as though he has the moral high ground. Thanks to his religion and his ... *ahem* "moral authority" in the sky that he answers to.
See, a REAL Christian would acknowledge the fact that people really are starving, malnurished, and go hungry all the time.
One of the things that led to the welfare system was the fact that people really DID starve to death during the Great Depression and things had to change.
Now, for all of you reading this, bulambrief always harps on the EU -- but the only reason why he hates them so much is because Europe is very secular and offers a very strong social safety net to its citizens. Both of which bulambrief despises.
Why? Well because he hates taxes -- and he'll allow anyone to starve, die of treatable medical conditions, or waste away on the streets if he thinks it'll save him a little bit of money.
Remember that list I made in my other post? Where Jesus ranks among the right-wing Republicans?
1) The Republican party
2) Donald Trump
3) Money
And there it is ... money. People like bulambrief worship the almighty dollar before bothering with any of Jesus's socialist teachings. This is one reason, I'm sure, why people like him identify more with the tyranical OT god Yahweh than with Jesus.
Let's not kid ourselves here, okay?
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Before this, people were perfectly capable of giving to charity.
Before this ... who cares what people did "before this." If you're so enamored of a romanticized past, please, invent a time machine and GO there. For the rest of us, well, we like progression, advancement and an evolving society.
"History is littered with the corpses of civilizations that clung too tightly to a particular era, only to be left behind, isolated, to wither on the vine of progress." -- Me.
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But the difference? They had money saved. Your governments stole your money and convinced you they needed it. That's funny, they managed for nearly 200 years on nothing but tariffs.
Right, because, like, gee, not much AT ALL changed in those 200 years, did it. Of course not. That's why, in America, horses are still the primary mode of transportation, we heat and light our homes with open flames, and the height of medical technology is a bottle of whiskey and a hacksaw.
Christ, how can you be THIS ridiculous?
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You've drunk the kool-aid, I see.
LOL! There's that psychological projection again.
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They screwed over the black people (heavy divorce rate, player culture, basketball pipe-dreams, drug use, black-on-black violence) and claimed credit for equalizing it. Or perhaps you'd like to tell me how they "prevented discrimination" when actually the religious right has been supporting abolition, voting for civil rights (the real kind), and then suddenly the same groups that were behind the KKK started acting like they were the heroes. Full story here.
Oh please. You don't give a flying rat's ass about black people. You're only using them as political footballs to try and vilify the leftist position. Nothing more.
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Totalitarianism is the natural enemy of religion, and it thrives on feelings of powerlessness.
Lies. More of it. Lies. Religion IS totalitarianism. Are you saying that religion is an enemy to itself?
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Religion, on the other hand, is based on the belief that human beings are given a soul by God/gods, that things matter. That people don't need to care about the rules of this world, because this world won't matter forever. But sure, you wanna be a slave, go right ahead.
And this is why religion is so dangerous. You said it, not me. "That people don't need to care abot the rules of this world, because this world won't matter forever."
Now okay, wait ... didn't you say in the beginning of this post that atheists always fall into either nihilism or legalism?
What you just said religion teaches is ... NIHILISM! YOU, my friend, are the one more likely to go out and murder someone because, hey, who gives a damn. Why not kidnap a kid and torture him for a few weeks? This world and his pain won't matter forever anyway ... there's no point if it doesn't last forever.
In fact, Mr. Nihilist, why bother reading a book? After all, it comes to an end eventually. May as well not see any movies, form any relationships, have a job, go on a vacation ... in fact, just SIT THERE and do nothing because, hey, if it isn't forever, what's the point?
See, this is why we call this nonsensical logic "Whackyland." In one place, bulambrief is accusing atheists of being murderers because hey, we'll fall into a nihilist state and nothing matters, not even society, so why not kill people? Then, many silly sentences later, bulambrief turns around and says that religion teaches that "people don't need to care about the rules of this world, because this world won't matter forever."
WHAT THE HELL?!?!
Are you REALLY this clueless? You're so absorbed in your propaganda that you can't even keep track of what you believe is true anymore, can you. That's what happens when your ideology is based on a huge pack of lies ... you have to keep all the lies straight. You're doing a real bang-up job of THAT, I can see.
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...I'm not gonna continue arguing with you here. There's not much left.
Wow, I thought the Lie Express Train would never friggin' end.
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Christ, there were so many things wrong with your post, I actually hit the character limit trying to refute all of your crap. Damn, that's never happened before. Needless to say I had to delete things, so I couldn't refute ALL of it, but it did force me to split this huge post in two parts. I've NEVER had to do that before, because I've never encountered a post with SO MANY THINGS I had to refute. Sheesh.
And it took me hours and hours to write this .. and I doubt my fingers will ever recover from this. I might not be around for awhile. Great news, huh, bulambrief? I know your fascistic bent so keeping atheists from having a voice is probably right up your alley!
poh pot, stalin, mao. enough said. toss in fail venezuela just to finish it. Oh yeah, and the problems the europeans are having these days.
anti-religious are as dangerous as literal theists.
One look at most inner city school districts is proof enough of the far left ways being self destructive to themselves and everybody around them. they blame everybody else. they blame the religious capitals like the literal theist blame 'that thing spelled, g, o, d.
to be clear, that's far left. middle left is not a problem. I guess because that's what I am. it aint my fault, that's for sure.
poh pot, stalin, mao. enough said. toss in fail venezuela just to finish it. Oh yeah, and the problems the europeans are having these days.
anti-religious are as dangerous as literal theists.
One look at most inner city school districts is proof enough of the far left ways being self destructive to themselves and everybody around them. they blame everybody else. they blame the religious capitals like the literal theist blame 'that thing spelled, g, o, d.
to be clear, that's far left. middle left is not a problem. I guess because that's what I am. it aint my fault, that's for sure.
Christ, you people don't listen very well, do you.
You just steamroll right over all the arguments made against you and keep bringing up Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot ... like broken records with absolutely no ability to process new information. Then you have the audacity to sit there and say that the left blames everyone else -- while YOU sit there blaming the left. LOL!
Yeah, the far left is the problem. Uh huh. There IS no "far left" in America. Only the far right. But hey, THAT'S not a problem.
Because, hey everyone, fascism is back in style again! Seig Heil!
Just keep on keeping on saying the SAME crap again and again ... doesn't matter what anyone else says.
Enough said? Really?
THEN STOP SAYING IT. (because it's rubbish anyway)
Now, bulambrief says religion is the enemy of totalitarianism.
The definition of totalitarianism is this:
a system of government that is centralized and dictatorial and requires complete subservience to the state.
Now, watch the video and see what this song is teaching the kids and then try to say with a straight face that religion is the enemy of totalitarianism. LOL! Can't do it. I snickered just typing it.
Now, bulambrief says religion is the enemy of totalitarianism.
The definition of totalitarianism is this:
a system of government that is centralized and dictatorial and requires complete subservience to the state.
Now, watch the video and see what this song is teaching the kids and then try to say with a straight face that religion is the enemy of totalitarianism. LOL! Can't do it. I snickered just typing it.
In the last 150 years, we've also seen the rise of alt-right conservative Christian politics. Wow, maybe they're responsible for those three regimes (by the way, if you start claiming that Nazism was secular, I swear to your God I'm going to kick you so goddamn hard that I'll happily take a ban for it -- well no, because I have no doubt someone of your moral character (or lack of it) would deliberately say Nazism was secular just to get me banned).
Let's see, how many logical fallacies are you up to now? I wish I would have kept track. So, let's see...
1). Post hoc ergo proptor hoc: a faulty assumption that, because there is a correlation between two variables (the rise of secularism happened at the same time three dangerous regimes existed), one caused the other (secularism must have CAUSED those three regimes to come into existence).
In truth, one of the biggest reasons secularism made it's big debut was because the horror, destruction, and misery of WWII and the Holocaust caused a LOT of people to lose their faith in God. In other words, those three regimes caused the rise of secularism -- the rise of secularism did NOT cause those three regimes. It's this kind of thing that makes your logic dishonest, disingenuous, and flat-out wrong.
In fact, one of the quintessential reasons why the United States is the only Western nation to have the same degree of religiosity as an impoverished, uneducated nation is because the United States was the ONLY Western nation that never experienced directly the horrors of total war. This is evidential to the premise I laid out above -- that those three regimes caused secularism to flourish and we, here in America, who never experienced those horrors, came away from the war actually believing we had been BLESSED by God, and only then did we start hearing jingoistic phrases like "American exceptionalism" or shoving Christianity in our faces by putting God in our Pledge -- which, by the way, our non-Christian Founders did NOT want in the Pledge. Because America is NOT a nation "under God." Only people are "under whichever God they personally believe in." I'm not under YOUR God, after all.
It's like amateur hour around here these days ...
Steeeerike one!
2), Fallacy of composition: assuming that something true of part of a whole must also be true of the whole.
Right, because isn't it obvious to everyone that ALL atheists are the same based upon the very worst members of our group? Of course, right? This is why secularism causes all the bad stuff while religion is 90% innocent within the context of all world struggles. (Even typing something so stupid made me nauseous).
Steeeerike two!
3). Argumentum ad infinitum: repeating the same bullshyte over and over again until those who disagree with you get sick of repeating their refutations and simply give up
I've heard all your arguments before. I've demolished them all before. And I'm sick of the fact that people like you dismiss everything I have to say immediately without even stopping to consider that yeah, maybe I am actually correct.
In fact, the ONLY reason why I'm enduring the pain I'm in right now to counter you is that I rarely see ALL of these stupid arguments presented in one place by one person in just two posts. Plus, your kind of anti-atheist rubbish needs to be laid low whenever it dares to walk in the free air of America. While it's still free. If people like you get into power, there won't be a free oxygen or nitrogen molecule from Bangor to Seattle.
And, while I know others have countered you as well, yours are the kind of hateful post filled with so much false propagandist rhetoric that I'll never be satisfied until I put you in your place myself. It just needs to be done if atheists are to keep our rights -- yeah, the ones you so arrogantly claim were given to us by Christians. What a steaming pile of fly-infested, corn-saturated goat manure THAT assertion is.
And I'm not even going to give you a strike on this one because, yeah, the whole "infinitum ad nauseam" fallacy is just too easy.
So ... baaaaaall!
Here we are, bottom of the ninth, your last batter is at the plate, and we're at 2 strikes and 1 ball. Gee, I wonder what will happen next?
4). False Attribution fallacy: an advocate appeals to an irrelevant, unqualified, unidentified, biased or fabricated source in support of an argument.
Like *snicker* using International Cops for Christ as an authority on history. *cackle*
I'll let that one slide, as well.
Baaaaaall two!
5). False Dilemma fallacy: two alternative statements are held to be the only possible options when in reality there are more.
Like when you made the ignorant claim that without a God telling us how to be moral, we atheists MUST fall into ONLY one of two states: nihilism and legalsim.
Except you just blatantly ignored the fact that we've told you a thousand times that our morality is based on EMPATHY -- and that has served us in a far greater capacity toward doing good than simply following orders you found in an ancient book.
Of course, acknowledging that our morality comes from our capacity for emapthy only makes YOU look ammoral and hard-hearted so (LOL!) yeah, it stands to reason that you would turn a blind eye to what we actually say we believe and instead attempt to TELL us what we believe. What fuggin' arrogance on your part ... ya know?
6). Incomplete comparison fallacy: insufficient information is provided to make a complete comparison.
Your two posts that I've responded to is riddled with this fallacy. I see it *everywhere*.
Steeerike three. You're out. Good-bye, thanks for playing. No less than six fallacies so far -- and that's without me actually going back through your posts to find even more.
Anyhow, enough of this. Not because I can't find more of them, but because I just want to get this damn post over with.
So what? No one is saying atheists are all perfect little angels. Not at all.
So yes, atheists CAN easily have all the worst traits of the Puritans. But do they? And how many of these types of atheists do you think there are? Do you see these atheists in public office? Have you ever seen one as president? How about one sitting on the bench of the Supreme Court?
I hope you can see where I'm going with this. I really couldn't care less about the behavior of individuals within a certain group ... because I refuse, unlike you, to run afoul of ... which fallacy was it again? Oh yes, the Fallacy of Composition. It's just too easy -- in fact, it's a downright lazy way to debate. Anyone can pluck the absolute worst atheist or the absolute worst Christian and scream, "See? They're ALL like that!"
Trouble is, you have already decided to accept this fallacy as being true. One of the more obvious examples is by pointing to figures like Stalin or Mao and claim that all atheists are sociopaths who will just "end" people they don't like (remember, you SAID that, and I'm STILL pondering if getting banned to bash you is worth it or not -- because that was a serious accusation.) and then you took it a step further by claiming ALL secular societies are doomed to horrible, badly-run communism led by clinically diagnosed paranoids, at which point millions will be killed by nihilistic atheist leaders who failed to take their marching orders from a 4,500 year-old tribal god worshiped by a wandering band of goatherders back in the Bronze and/or Iron Age.
I know you didn't actually say ALL of that, but you implied it heavy-handedly enough to extrapolate what you failed to say.
Unfortunately, YOUR people -- blinded by stupidity and a religion that actively campaigns to avoid teaching children higher order thinking skills -- are coming dangerously close to obtaining real power in this country. And then we'll be led, quite literally, by a theocratic, fascistic idiotocracy. You're in no real danger from us because we actually believe in freedom.
Oh sure, sometimes you might hear about some overzealous atheist who did something horrible -- with monumentally egregious consequences that will ripple across the fabric of history -- like, making a college hotel take the Bibles out of their drawers. OH ... MY ... GOD ... how awful. I mean, I know just how much that will affect billions of Christians everywhere!
But YOU people -- you are trying to do things that really DO ripple across the fabric of history. And not in any good way. Just be careful you know who you're really supporting. I do not find it a coincidence AT ALL that this sudden rise in Christian fascism and authoritarianism is happening JUST as the last of our WWII veterans and Holocaust survivors are dying -- so there will be no one left to personally give witness to the horrors and dangers of fascism, absolutism, authoritarianism, and all the hatreds, violence, and injustice they invariably bring.
You stand warned.
So now you're an expert on French history now, too, I see.
And you received your post-grad degree in history from .... where, exactly?
I can tell you're lifting all this crap from right-wing Christian websites. These aren't YOUR thoughts. You're just vomiting up the opinons of other people and passing them off as expert-driven facts.
Now, you can get away with doing that, usually, if there are no true experts in your audience. But if there IS an expert in the audience, well ... *wave* hello, bulambriefs. I happen to be a credentialled historian. Pleased to meet you.
Plus, your religious agenda is so disgustingly transparent that I almost -- almost -- feel embarrassed for you. So, the French Revolution produced nothing of value, is it? Which one of those propagandist websites told you THAT line of guff? Sure, things like the Declaration of the Rights of Man or the beginning stages of dumping absolutist monarchs for actual democracy or concepts like those outlined in the "tennis court oath" that, and other things were completely valueless, right?
No, my painfully obvious and transparent friend. What YOU don't like to talk about is that the French Revolution was, by and large, a secular revolution, and that just grinds your gears, doesn't it. You just can't STAND the fact that a nation like France was able to throw off the yoke of backward religious authoritarianism and managed to come up with the same ideas as our Founders -- except -- no gods. Yep, no gods, no religions -- and that really ticks you off.
And RIGHT there is your ulterior motive for waving a dismissive hand and pronouncing with NO historical authority, "Oh, but the French Revolution produced nothing of value!" However, if that event had happened within the context of Christianity, you'd be trumpeting it as one of the most pivotal events in Western history.
Like I've said before -- I'm on to you. Big time.
I mean, seriously. Look how pissy you suddenly became simply because the French adopted a 10-day week to avoid dealing with the Christian Sabbath. WOW! If that alone doesn't give yourself away, I don't know what would. Haha, my god, bulambriefs. This whole tirade of yours is utterly pathetic.
Wow, now you're defending McCarthyism? What next? A Hitler salute? Jackbooted Christian warriors goosestepping down Pennsylvania Avenue?
And during the McCarthyism era, America actually had political prisoners. Yeah, just like every other fascist regime. Putting people in jail for their political views. Isn't right-wing freedom just grand? NOT.
The problem you and others like you have is that you don't understand what freedom is -- and you take it for granted every day. Which is why you're so eager to get rid of it. You no longer appreciate it, value it, or love it. Instead, you want freedom to involve ONLY the freedom the right-wingers want everyone to have. Look like us. Act like us. Believe as we do. Worship our god. Accept our political superiority. And if you deviate from the narrow line we've given you to walk, we'll slap irons on your wrists and haul you off to the deepest hole we can find.
Yep, those are the modern alt-right Christian values present in today's dying America. Oh, and one other thing. This bogus claim about the wonderful merits of Joe McCarthy is one of the bedrocks of historical revisionism. All you're doing is re-writing history to make the injustices and intolerances and prejudices of the far-right look appealing, justified, and morally correct.
But to everyone else who is reading this -- bulambrief is reciting a LIE.
Oh, and another LIE that bulambrief is spewing: Americans paid income tax during the Civil War and, generally, at other points in US history when the government needed money for something -- especially wars. However, the income tax became permanent, as he said, in 1916. THAT is true enough.
But he said "around this time, lefitsts helped set up the income tax." Okay, two things wrong with this stupid sentence. First, no, it wasn't "around this time" (referring to the McCarthy era). I don't consider 1916 and 1954 to be around the same time. Yeah, nitpicky, but it demonstrates bulambrief's sloppy attention to detail.
Secondly, if "lefitists" HELPED set up the income tax -- who the fug HELPED them? Aliens from Zeta Reticuli?
Never mind that the 16th Amendment passed with a vote of 314 to 14. I mean, holy shyte, there must have been only 14 right-wingers in the whole government back then! Wow!
Even so, I'm tired of moochers like you who think taxes are some kind of punishment. Leftists understood that, if the government doesn't have an adequate income, America couldn't progress. I mean, THINK about it. What was America like in 1916? No interstates. No healthcare. No military. No social safety net. Few paved roads. The electrical grid was in its infancy. Gee whiz, Mr. Genius bulambriefs -- the federal government had rather few expenses in those days.
Now, sure, we could STILL live like that -- with nothing. Of course we'd be classified as a Third World nation and we'd resemble those cesspool places we see pictures of in National Geographic and think, Damn, I'm glad I live in America and not there.
But you don't want to PAY for any of those things. Nope. Though I suppose we could just sit back and let God build our nation. Yeah, let's do that and see how far we get. You're as big of a moocher as any welfare queen.
My advice to you is to pack up and move your mooching ass to antarctica -- or somewhere else where you can be anti-social and worry only about yourself. Leave civilization to actual citizens and not freedom-hating, tax-evading, moochers like yourself. Just a friendly word of advice. Or ... not so friendly, as the case may be.
That's right ... loud and proud. In fact, we didn't go far enough in creating a welfare state. The secular humanist states over there in the EU -- that you hate so much without ever really explaining why -- are doing things the right way. Unlike here in the States where our health care system resembles something you'd find in Auschwitz rather than in a liberal democracy.
Your real motivation in all of this is simple greed and selfishness. You can cloud the issue with bullshyte historical revisionist crap, pretending to have superior morals because you worship a tyrannical wargod from the ancient past. You can pretend to have the country's best interests at heart, thump your chest about freedom and democracy, and pretend to be an American.
But once you blow away the cloud of stink that surrounds your bankrupt moral position, all you really are is, as I've said, a selfish, greedy person who more resembles a sociopath than any atheist I've ever met. Which doesn't surprise me, really, since "I know you are, but what am I?" is one of the most popular rebuttals to left-leaning indictments of right-wing failures. Psychological projection. "Nuh uh, YOU'RE the fascist!" "Nuh uh, YOU'RE the one taking away our freedoms." "Nuh uh, YOU'RE the one using religion as a weapon... err wait, no ... crap, I didn't mean to say that."
Pathetic. Pathetic. Pathetic.
LOL! I dunno anymore. I mean ... sometimes things just get so stupid that all one can really do is shake her head and walk away.
Theoretical. Theoretical? Seriously?
Well, folks, there you have it: there's your vaunted right-wing Christian moral system in a nutshell.
The idea here is to simply pretend that starving people don't exist. I'm sure that, in Whackyland, there really ARE no starving people. And the sky is purple and ducks drive cars -- and any other crazy nonsense bulambrief needs to say in order to act as though he has the moral high ground. Thanks to his religion and his ... *ahem* "moral authority" in the sky that he answers to.
See, a REAL Christian would acknowledge the fact that people really are starving, malnurished, and go hungry all the time.
One of the things that led to the welfare system was the fact that people really DID starve to death during the Great Depression and things had to change.
Now, for all of you reading this, bulambrief always harps on the EU -- but the only reason why he hates them so much is because Europe is very secular and offers a very strong social safety net to its citizens. Both of which bulambrief despises.
Why? Well because he hates taxes -- and he'll allow anyone to starve, die of treatable medical conditions, or waste away on the streets if he thinks it'll save him a little bit of money.
Remember that list I made in my other post? Where Jesus ranks among the right-wing Republicans?
1) The Republican party
2) Donald Trump
3) Money
And there it is ... money. People like bulambrief worship the almighty dollar before bothering with any of Jesus's socialist teachings. This is one reason, I'm sure, why people like him identify more with the tyranical OT god Yahweh than with Jesus.
Let's not kid ourselves here, okay?
Before this ... who cares what people did "before this." If you're so enamored of a romanticized past, please, invent a time machine and GO there. For the rest of us, well, we like progression, advancement and an evolving society.
"History is littered with the corpses of civilizations that clung too tightly to a particular era, only to be left behind, isolated, to wither on the vine of progress." -- Me.
Right, because, like, gee, not much AT ALL changed in those 200 years, did it. Of course not. That's why, in America, horses are still the primary mode of transportation, we heat and light our homes with open flames, and the height of medical technology is a bottle of whiskey and a hacksaw.
Christ, how can you be THIS ridiculous?
LOL! There's that psychological projection again.
Oh please. You don't give a flying rat's ass about black people. You're only using them as political footballs to try and vilify the leftist position. Nothing more.
Lies. More of it. Lies. Religion IS totalitarianism. Are you saying that religion is an enemy to itself?
And this is why religion is so dangerous. You said it, not me. "That people don't need to care abot the rules of this world, because this world won't matter forever."
Now okay, wait ... didn't you say in the beginning of this post that atheists always fall into either nihilism or legalism?
What you just said religion teaches is ... NIHILISM! YOU, my friend, are the one more likely to go out and murder someone because, hey, who gives a damn. Why not kidnap a kid and torture him for a few weeks? This world and his pain won't matter forever anyway ... there's no point if it doesn't last forever.
In fact, Mr. Nihilist, why bother reading a book? After all, it comes to an end eventually. May as well not see any movies, form any relationships, have a job, go on a vacation ... in fact, just SIT THERE and do nothing because, hey, if it isn't forever, what's the point?
See, this is why we call this nonsensical logic "Whackyland." In one place, bulambrief is accusing atheists of being murderers because hey, we'll fall into a nihilist state and nothing matters, not even society, so why not kill people? Then, many silly sentences later, bulambrief turns around and says that religion teaches that "people don't need to care about the rules of this world, because this world won't matter forever."
WHAT THE HELL?!?!
Are you REALLY this clueless? You're so absorbed in your propaganda that you can't even keep track of what you believe is true anymore, can you. That's what happens when your ideology is based on a huge pack of lies ... you have to keep all the lies straight. You're doing a real bang-up job of THAT, I can see.
Wow, I thought the Lie Express Train would never friggin' end.
Christ, there were so many things wrong with your post, I actually hit the character limit trying to refute all of your crap. Damn, that's never happened before. Needless to say I had to delete things, so I couldn't refute ALL of it, but it did force me to split this huge post in two parts. I've NEVER had to do that before, because I've never encountered a post with SO MANY THINGS I had to refute. Sheesh.
And it took me hours and hours to write this .. and I doubt my fingers will ever recover from this. I might not be around for awhile. Great news, huh, bulambrief? I know your fascistic bent so keeping atheists from having a voice is probably right up your alley!
No, my painfully obvious and transparent friend. What YOU don't like to talk about is that the French Revolution was, by and large, a secular revolution, and that just grinds your gears, doesn't it. You just can't STAND the fact that a nation like France was able to throw off the yoke of backward religious authoritarianism and managed to come up with the same ideas as our Founders -- except -- no gods. Yep, no gods, no religions -- and that really ticks you off.
Perhaps someone should tell bulmabriefs that secular France works a max 35hr week whilst Christian USA has an average 47hr week....but nothing good comes from socialist ideas.
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