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Old 01-19-2018, 05:13 AM
 
Location: minnesota
4,878 posts, read 1,525,501 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoreau424 View Post
LOL I had to stop with just the first sentence. Modern science isn't necessarily anything special, and the modern (at least American) mind is inferior to say 100 or especially 150 years ago. For example, take a look at the modern American kid in school and what he/she studies. Then compare that to say, someone like Henry David Thoreau in grammar school. He studied Greek composition and grammar, Demosthenes, Sophocles, Euripedes, and Homer, Latin grammar, Livy, Horace, Cicero, Seneca, geometry, algebra, plane and analytic trigonometry, differential and integral calculus, mechanics, optics, magnetism, topography, various types of philosophy, languages (German, Italian, Spanish, French), and a number of other studies that I won't bother repeating. Plus, people in the past didn't have video games and TV to sit around and play with instead of using their brains and exploring on their own.
Yeah, back then they learned it all by 8th grade and didn't bother to send girls at all. What the heck are you even talking about?
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Old 01-19-2018, 06:18 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
14,928 posts, read 6,700,043 times
Reputation: 1542
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Okay. Guided evolution. Fine.

What's your actual evidence?
you don't want evidence, you want proof. I got nothing and don't care. Heck, I.m not adamant about what we know as intelligence guiding -Should I argue about your raison d'etre? Depends on what it results in. we see what fundamentalism results in.
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Old 01-19-2018, 11:34 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
17,699 posts, read 8,328,262 times
Reputation: 17342
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
you don't want evidence, you want proof. I got nothing and don't care. Heck, I.m not adamant about what we know as intelligence guiding -Should I argue about your raison d'etre? Depends on what it results in. we see what fundamentalism results in.
I respect that response more than most. You seem to be admitting that you don't know, just contemplating.
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Old 01-19-2018, 12:58 PM
 
Location: Pacific 🌉 N, 🌄W
9,556 posts, read 3,882,939 times
Reputation: 6094
Quote:
Originally Posted by hljc View Post
Still evolution theories are made from mutation of the cells to change life for the better , or these mutation would doom the species ..... You don`t see mutation change anything of a evolution ideas , as mutations of cells would be insignificant as there must have been a creator
What you posted is completely false.

Misconception: Natural selection produces organisms perfectly suited to their environments.

Correction: Natural selection is not all-powerful. There are many reasons that natural selection cannot produce "perfectly-engineered" traits. For example, living things are made up of traits resulting from a complicated set of trade-offs — changing one feature for the better may mean changing another for the worse (e.g., a bird with the "perfect" tail plumage to attract mates maybe be particularly vulnerable to predators because of its long tail). And of course, because organisms have arisen through complex evolutionary histories (not a design process), their future evolution is often constrained by traits they have already evolved. For example, even if it were advantageous for an insect to grow in some way other than molting, this switch simply could not happen because molting is embedded in the genetic makeup of insects at many levels.

Misconception: Natural selection acts for the good of the species.

Correction: When we hear about altruism in nature (e.g., dolphins spending energy to support a sick individual, or a meerkat calling to warn others of an approaching predator, even though this puts the alarm sounder at extra risk), it's tempting to think that those behaviors arose through natural selection that favors the survival of the species — that natural selection promotes behaviors that are good for the species as a whole, even if they are risky or detrimental for individuals in the population. However, this impression is incorrect. Natural selection has no foresight or intentions. In general, natural selection simply selects among individuals in a population, favoring traits that enable individuals to survive and reproduce, yielding more copies of those individuals' genes in the next generation. Theoretically, in fact, a trait that is advantageous to the individual (e.g., being an efficient predator) could become more and more frequent and wind up driving the whole population to extinction (e.g., if the efficient predation actually wiped out the entire prey population, leaving the predators without a food source).

So what's the evolutionary explanation for altruism if it's not for the good of the species? There are many ways that such behaviors can evolve. For example, if altruistic acts are "repaid" at other times, this sort of behavior may be favored by natural selection. Similarly, if altruistic behavior increases the survival and reproduction of an individual's kin (who are also likely to carry altruistic genes), this behavior can spread through a population via natural selection.
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Old 01-19-2018, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Boston
3,684 posts, read 1,162,307 times
Reputation: 5681
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
I think the point is that "guided evolution" is a possibility if you don't take the Genesis account literally, and that there may be arguments in favor just because of the nature of intelligence and consciousness as ends of that guidance.
Greg Chaitin, one of the world's leading mathematicians said evolution as a theory must rely on empirical evidence. But mathematicians demand more objective proof.

He put forward a mathematical model that demonstrates genetics is driven by software and posits a universal programmer.

Evolution only works for culling the herd, not for origin of species.

It's the same in cosmology, all physicists accept design in the cosmological constants.
Even the atheist phycisists accept the brute fact of fine tuning.

The implication of these facts spell the difference , a man leaps one way or the other in his life depending whether he accepts truth or sets himself on a course of collision with truth, because a lie can only stretch so far.
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Old 01-19-2018, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Pacific 🌉 N, 🌄W
9,556 posts, read 3,882,939 times
Reputation: 6094
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Okay. Guided evolution. Fine.

What's your actual evidence?
I laugh every-time I see someone claim "guided" evoltuon. That is the most nonsensical thing I have ever heard and tells me the person stating it has ZERO understanding of how evolution occurs.
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Old 01-19-2018, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Boston
3,684 posts, read 1,162,307 times
Reputation: 5681
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Okay. Guided evolution. Fine.

What's your actual evidence?
Epigenetics.
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Old 01-19-2018, 01:05 PM
 
Location: Pacific 🌉 N, 🌄W
9,556 posts, read 3,882,939 times
Reputation: 6094
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesg View Post
Epigenetics.
LOL I see you don't understand what Epigenetics is.


Do you know that Epigenetics is the study of changes in organisms caused by modification of gene expression rather than alteration of the genetic code itself? i.e. it's a change in phenotype without a change in genotype — which in turn affects how cells read the genes.

Now tell us how this = "guided" evolution?

Perhaps you need a crash course on Epigenetics.
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Old 01-19-2018, 01:17 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
17,699 posts, read 8,328,262 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesg View Post
Epigenetics.
Epigenetics does not require divine intervention either.
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Old 01-19-2018, 04:12 PM
 
32,716 posts, read 8,144,298 times
Reputation: 4620
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesg View Post
Greg Chaitin, one of the world's leading mathematicians said evolution as a theory must rely on empirical evidence. But mathematicians demand more objective proof.

He put forward a mathematical model that demonstrates genetics is driven by software and posits a universal programmer.

Evolution only works for culling the herd, not for origin of species.

It's the same in cosmology, all physicists accept design in the cosmological constants.
Even the atheist phycisists accept the brute fact of fine tuning.

The implication of these facts spell the difference , a man leaps one way or the other in his life depending whether he accepts truth or sets himself on a course of collision with truth, because a lie can only stretch so far.
If you research a bit more you find that Genetic Information is Not correctly to be regarded as 'software' much less one written by an Intelligent designer, whichever god (if any) you may have in mind.

And while there is indeed signs of "Design" in the cosmos it is more correctly (by the atheist physicists that you reference)regarded as construct in a fairly ordered manner, and that is because of natural physical laws, not because some invisible human write the rules on invisible paper.

There are a few people who have at least worked within the acceptance of the evolutionary process, but have tried to insert an argument for the fingerprints of a designer in there, but it really isn't appropriate or needed.
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