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Old 02-01-2018, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma
1,717 posts, read 542,093 times
Reputation: 800

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
Start with the realization that the Bible as a whole is internally inconsistent in the various presentations or concepts of the nature of God, so acknowledge that it is de facto not authoritative.


Analyze the presentations of the core message concerning the nature of God as taught by Jesus and presented by the witnesses recorded, recognizing that some elements may not be accurately understood by some of those witnesses. In other words, don't accept every word as truth, but look for a consistent and internally cohesive message. Consider what that message means.


Determine whether the actions of enthusiasts are consistent with that message, for instance, "is murder consistent with an imperative to love?"


It is not necessary to determine that Jesus IS God, but whether that message is FROM God and it is not necessary for the Bible to be authoritative in order to do that, just whether a consistent and usable message can be determined as a good foundation for action.


I'd venture to say that you already discount the ideas of that terrorist as irrational.


Oh, yes, about Harry Potter. Is there a sound basis for believing in magic, and is it important to understanding his values?
What I’m getting from this is that you are cherry picking the Bible into your own flavor of religion. Aside from the Bible(which is not authoritative or evidenced), what evidence is so compelling that you accept Jesus as a god?

Yes, I discount the beliefs of the terrorist as rational. He like any other religious person is displaying irrational belief in unsubstantiated gods.

Magic? What is it when you turn water into wine, walk on water or raise people from the dead? Seems both would be unsubstantiated supernatural events claim by books that are not “authorative” and defy the laws of nature.
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Old 02-01-2018, 11:29 AM
 
13,958 posts, read 6,966,729 times
Reputation: 1824
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
Anyone who is not born again is spiritually dead. Their god is the desires of the physical flesh which is corrupted and will die.



Ephesians 2:2-5
And yet, Christians as a group, and non-Christians as a group, have the same desires (physical and spiritual) and behave similarly.
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Old 02-01-2018, 11:30 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
14,022 posts, read 6,299,156 times
Reputation: 1450
Quote:
Originally Posted by maat55 View Post
What I’m getting from this is that you are cherry picking the Bible into your own flavor of religion. Aside from the Bible(which is not authoritative or evidenced), what evidence is so compelling that you accept Jesus as a god?

Yes, I discount the beliefs of the terrorist as rational. He like any other religious person is displaying irrational belief in unsubstantiated gods.

Magic? What is it when you turn water into wine, walk on water or raise people from the dead? Seems both would be unsubstantiated supernatural events claim by books that are not “authorative” and defy the laws of nature.
What does "cherry-picking" mean? The term is commonly used to denigrate people who only follow some of the rules of what is considered an authoritative source. I submit that if a source is NOT authority in its own right, choosing cogent and useful concepts that forma consistent and inspiring whole is the only rational response if such elements are present. Yes, I am partial to consistent and inspiring messages on how to conduct our lives. The only REAL evidence for the value of the message of Jesus is the message itself: does it work for you? Why is it important to accept Jesus "as a god" if the message is believed to be divine?


"Irrational?" Talk to me about nihilism.


So, back to the question about whether the "magic" is important to the message of Jesus or whether the reports might be accrued legendary elements in the desire to make an organized religion out of a Way of life taught by Jesus. I really don't care about the "magic."


What DO you believe in? Do you have a positive message for us or are you just all about the "everlasting no?
Why ARE you active?
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Old 02-01-2018, 11:33 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
16,016 posts, read 7,577,293 times
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To be honest, I respect cherry pickers more than those who don't cherry pick. At least cherry pickers are thinking.
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Old 02-01-2018, 12:14 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
1,717 posts, read 542,093 times
Reputation: 800
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
What does "cherry-picking" mean? The term is commonly used to denigrate people who only follow some of the rules of what is considered an authoritative source. I submit that if a source is NOT authority in its own right, choosing cogent and useful concepts that forma consistent and inspiring whole is the only rational response if such elements are present. Yes, I am partial to consistent and inspiring messages on how to conduct our lives. The only REAL evidence for the value of the message of Jesus is the message itself: does it work for you? Why is it important to accept Jesus "as a god" if the message is believed to be divine?


"Irrational?" Talk to me about nihilism.


So, back to the question about whether the "magic" is important to the message of Jesus or whether the reports might be accrued legendary elements in the desire to make an organized religion out of a Way of life taught by Jesus. I really don't care about the "magic."


What DO you believe in? Do you have a positive message for us or are you just all about the "everlasting no?
Why ARE you active?
Are you saying that you aspire to the positive message attributed to Jesus, but do not believe he was a diety? If you believe he is a deity, I would like you to present the evidence that leads you to this extraordinary conclusion. If you believe solely for a philosophical world view, more power to you.

Iím active against false claims of deities that distort individuals perception of reality.
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Old 02-01-2018, 01:31 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
1,717 posts, read 542,093 times
Reputation: 800
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
To be honest, I respect cherry pickers more than those who don't cherry pick. At least cherry pickers are thinking.
Same here, as long as they are not promoting a deity, but just a philosophy. The reason I left Christianity was due to I could not consider it legitimate without evidence it was devinely conceived. There are plenty of avenues to pursue a moral healthy lifestyle based in humanism that don’t require a blood thirsty deities mythical inspiration.
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Old 02-01-2018, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
10,883 posts, read 3,477,342 times
Reputation: 1073
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40 View Post
Anyone who is not born again is spiritually dead. Their god is the desires of the physical flesh which is corrupted and will die.



Ephesians 2:2-5



As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.


And there it is for everyone to see. What Christian can say that he even tries to be obedient? Christian reject God's laws today, but in Paul's day, they were obedient, and EVEN THEN, Paul was always so upset because they were not studying enough for the spirit of Jesus to be formed in them and he was perplexed by them saying,'' You are still MY babies until such a time will come that Christ is FINALLY formed in you.


Being born again is just as it says, you are given the seed to raise a baby on milk until he can eat the meat of the word, but until he matures, he is not the son God speaks of.


Being born again is happening in Revelation 12, and it is a long drawn out process that has 42 months appointed for the spring and unless you accept the ways of God, you can't even begin your walk.


You have to raise a full grown mature son because babies will not be given great power, and a son is given great power. But you can't raise a son unless you decide to be OBEDIENT.

You people are quoting things that were spoken to Gentile converts of Judaism who joined Jews.

Look around, y'all see any Jews?
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Old 02-01-2018, 01:58 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
10,883 posts, read 3,477,342 times
Reputation: 1073
Being born again CANNOT happen until a person has moved from his first season in Ephraim to move to his second season in Judah. Revelation is showing those two witness in order to show you how to go all the way to death to be born again.
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