U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-24-2018, 10:13 PM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
6,521 posts, read 4,007,510 times
Reputation: 1060

Advertisements

Chimeras are individuals produced by the merger of multiple zygotes (fertilized eggs), post-conception.

The answer to contradicting ideas of what individuals have or are is getting ever closer,
the "soul" is not "implanted" at conception,
nor at "quickening" in the womb,
nor "at birth,"
nor "at first breath" post-birth.

The "immortal soul" is merely a vain person's empirical-existence-hating dream.

It does upset the worse-off people* to see themselves [and sometimes even others] as they naturally are. They are the dreaded haters and losers, and they are the majority, and they faction against each other in favor of their vain supernaturalist politics. Ugly politics. The best of the peace-makers are in perfect equanimity with any rational possibility. This includes wise and reasonable people of any persuasion.

Spoiler
* "worse off people" as in not necessarily material ways; and either because of their own accord or due to outside circumstances

There is a ton of other empirical inconsistencies and logical fallacies associated with the concept of "souls" and "spirits" --which are not always seen as separate things.

Please discuss the pros and cons of these sorts of "immaterial-identity" ideas with me and others below, both in terms of empirical evidence and theoretical/hypothetical thought.

Last edited by LuminousTruth; 01-24-2018 at 11:25 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-25-2018, 09:37 PM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
6,521 posts, read 4,007,510 times
Reputation: 1060
Well... I will continue.

For a "soul" or "spirit" or "ka" or "chi" or "psyche" (or rather ANYTHING) to exist, it must have a logical and rational "substance" or essence.

This means it needs to have its own "space-time" as support for its existence whether within its own essence or within its internal AND external environment. If it exists within a support of nothing (and/or as nothing logical) than it is nothing itself and/or paradoxical; I think that for that which is paradoxical, most even-minded individuals would understand as self-contradictory and thus self-negating.

So if a soul can only work in our world within a brain, then a single-celled zygote cannot "have a soul." The best one could say is that the single-cell is "connected" to a "possible to materially corrupt" soul, and thus a Chimera individual WOULD have TWO souls.

Yet originally disembodied and originally immaterial souls CANNOT have "original sin" passed down through material replication/reproduction until they become associated with such "tainted" cell-lines. So then who is attaching them to these cell-lines and tainting these "originally free" immaterial souls?

I hope I am not talking past too many people, I understand not everyone has a strong grasp of the thoughts and knowledge gathered in the fields of philosophy and science.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-26-2018, 05:01 PM
 
31,554 posts, read 7,264,974 times
Reputation: 4471
It's a bugga ennit when you post groundbreaking material and get Sod-All back.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-26-2018, 06:16 PM
 
9,253 posts, read 12,586,718 times
Reputation: 9887
I hope I am not talking past too many people, I understand not everyone has a strong grasp of the thoughts and knowledge gathered in the fields of philosophy and science.

I think you are simply conversing with yourself. With a bit of superiority. Not to use the c word.
Your entire premise is built on chaotic collection of un truths. Like Sakyamuni said - if you start your Way off the wrong idea, it will lead you only to wrong goal.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-26-2018, 11:15 PM
 
35,753 posts, read 23,928,281 times
Reputation: 5700
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousTruth View Post
Chimeras are individuals produced by the merger of multiple zygotes (fertilized eggs), post-conception.
This concept is carnal-minded NOT spiritual-minded that's why people are confused. We are embryo Spirits in a physical womb and our Spirit grows and develops as a single entity no matter what its physical composition is.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-27-2018, 12:15 AM
 
Location: USA
2,239 posts, read 837,378 times
Reputation: 689
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousTruth View Post
Chimeras are individuals produced by the merger of multiple zygotes (fertilized eggs), post-conception.

The answer to contradicting ideas of what individuals have or are is getting ever closer,
the "soul" is not "implanted" at conception,
nor at "quickening" in the womb,
nor "at birth,"
nor "at first breath" post-birth.

The "immortal soul" is merely a vain person's empirical-existence-hating dream.

It does upset the worse-off people* to see themselves [and sometimes even others] as they naturally are. They are the dreaded haters and losers, and they are the majority, and they faction against each other in favor of their vain supernaturalist politics. Ugly politics. The best of the peace-makers are in perfect equanimity with any rational possibility. This includes wise and reasonable people of any persuasion.

Spoiler
* "worse off people" as in not necessarily material ways; and either because of their own accord or due to outside circumstances

There is a ton of other empirical inconsistencies and logical fallacies associated with the concept of "souls" and "spirits" --which are not always seen as separate things.

Please discuss the pros and cons of these sorts of "immaterial-identity" ideas with me and others below, both in terms of empirical evidence and theoretical/hypothetical thought.

You're making this up as you go anyway, so I suppose the answer is whatever you decide it is.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-27-2018, 12:34 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,026 posts, read 8,051,370 times
Reputation: 5959
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tired of the Nonsense View Post
You're making this up as you go anyway, so I suppose the answer is whatever you decide it is.
Yes, the very question presupposes ANYONE gets a soul, and to an extent presupposes what a soul is. I think the definition and existence of souls must be established as a first step. Then we can talk about edge cases and logical conundrums.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-27-2018, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Pacific 🌉 N, 🌄W
8,844 posts, read 3,463,818 times
Reputation: 5488
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousTruth View Post
Chimeras are individuals produced by the merger of multiple zygotes (fertilized eggs), post-conception.
A chimeric person is a person composed of two genetically distinct types of cells.

How Chimerism occurs:
  • People that have two different sets of DNA are called human chimeras.
  • It can happen when a woman is pregnant with fraternal twins and one embryo dies very early on. The other embryo can "absorb" its twin's cells.
  • It can also happen after a bone marrow transplant, and (in a smaller scale) during normal pregnancy.

A genetic chimerism or chimera (also spelled chimaera) is a single organism composed of cells with distinct genotypes. In animals, this means an individual derived from different zygotes, which can include possessing both female and male sex organs, blood cells of two blood types, or subtle variations in form.

Since we don't know what souls consist of or where they reside within us or how they are even produced, there is no way to know.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-27-2018, 01:40 PM
 
Location: USA
2,239 posts, read 837,378 times
Reputation: 689
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
Yes, the very question presupposes ANYONE gets a soul, and to an extent presupposes what a soul is. I think the definition and existence of souls must be established as a first step. Then we can talk about edge cases and logical conundrums.
The existence of a soul must be established before any definitions can be considered. Is there any physical evidence that a soul exists? Or is it merely a matter of assumption?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-27-2018, 07:08 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,026 posts, read 8,051,370 times
Reputation: 5959
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tired of the Nonsense View Post
The existence of a soul must be established before any definitions can be considered. Is there any physical evidence that a soul exists? Or is it merely a matter of assumption?
No -- no physical evidence and yes -- assumption. Or, assertion without evidence, to be more exact.

The somewhat nebulous concepts of soul and spirit, sometimes used interchangeably, sometimes with distinctions -- are tied to the idea that if humans are immortal such that they could survive intact into an afterlife, there must be some non-corporeal "essence" that dwells within the body while alive, and is separable from it at death. It's also mixed up in the notion that humans are extra-special in some mystical or supernatural way, that they are not just smart, particularly self-aware apes. Sometimes "soul" signifies the latter notion, "spirit" the former notion.

It's just another example of supernatural qualities, entities or realms that are inherently non-falsifiable, about which no supportable knowledge claim can be made, and for which there is no good reason to believe in their existence.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2017, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32 - Top