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Old 01-30-2018, 11:08 PM
 
Location: USA
3,032 posts, read 1,053,649 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
i recall from the Pew research that 84% of the world population identifies with religion, and another 9% believes in God. so that is 93% of the world accepts religion or God.

So for most people science and religion are very compatible. to the tune of 93% of the world.

You recall wrong.

PEW RESEARCH GROUP
APRIL 5, 2017
Christians remain world’s largest religious group, but they are declining in Europe



Christians have also declined by 20% in 20 years in the US.

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Old 01-30-2018, 11:32 PM
 
12,482 posts, read 13,108,284 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
You're fudging. For example, Buddhists identify with religion, but generally do not believe in a god power.
i said clearly 84% with religion plus 9% more with God = 93% with religion or with God
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Old 01-30-2018, 11:35 PM
 
2,827 posts, read 1,755,851 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shorman View Post
I don't understand why you call this a dilemma. It is just people deciding that religion has no role to play in their lives. I know some religious people have a hard time understanding this, but for an increasing number of people religion is not a part of their lives at all. It is not a dilemma or tough choice, religious beliefs are simply meaningless and irrelevant to some people.

"Teenagers even say family, friends, money, music and even reality television are more important than religion." How can anyone argue with the truth of this statement? That is a much more healthy approach to life than living in constant paralyzing fear of pissing off sky daddy.

Fundamentalists are exempt from this because they are fundamentalists. Their entire worldview is shaped by being a believer. Those people wouldn't know how to function without the crutch of religion and their faith that they are special to an invisible deity.
It's a dilemma because this is a false dichotomy.

Stop going to fundie churches and you'll find that things aren't as they seem.

I went to a fundie church in Richmond. I was a confused trans person. They told me to use the men's restroom (it sounds okay to stupid ppl, but the reality is, things suck when you kinda are dressed female and enter a men's restroom). That and the marriage and family speech pretty much clued me in that I was not welcome there. Tried a kinda liberal church. They had no real problems with me. But I was poor and couldn't afford to live in town so I had to move home. Found another, a liberal church. But around election toime, I found I had lost taste for liberalism, esp their SJW gospel. Found a moderate church. She's possibly slightly left of center, but threy have a mixed group so yeah. She talks more about sin than LGBT lifestyle being evil. They are welcoming and don't get into politics.

That's three churches of for that have welcomed me with open arms.

I want you to read 1 Corinthians 6, starting at 7 and going until 10. Oh noes, youre damned, right? Read verse 11. God intends us to be law-abiding (love your neighbor as yourself, love God with all heart, soul, mind and strength) but not legalistic.

If you think you can't be part of the church because you had a rotten history, listen to a priest talk about their rotten past sometime. So will tell you about how they used to be drunks, drug users, abusers, and there was one (forgot his name but I met him) who shot his wife with a crossbow bec she cheated.

We do need God in our lives. But most ppl are plagued by extremes.

Unaffiliated does not mean atheist automatically. There are unaffiliated who believe but do not practice faith publicly. Or who like me have therir own faith, or people also like me who attend but not consisterntly. Considering all of these atheists is intellectualy dishonest.

Look it up. The internet is for research. They don't mean thre same thing and yes, there are unaffiliated theists.

Last edited by bulmabriefs144; 01-30-2018 at 11:46 PM..
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Old 01-30-2018, 11:35 PM
 
12,482 posts, read 13,108,284 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tired of the Nonsense View Post
You recall wrong.
nope i recall correctly:

By Jennifer Harper The Washington Times - December 23, 2012, 11:05AM
Worldwide, more than eight-in-ten people identify with a religious group,” says a new comprehensive demographic study of more than 230 countries and territories conducted by the Pew Research Center’s Forum on Religion & Public Life.

“There are 5.8 billion religiously affiliated adults and children around the globe, representing 84 percent of the 2010 world population of 6.9 billion,” the analysis states.

According to the Pew Research Center's 2012 global study of 230 countries and territories, 16% of the world's population is not affiliated with a religion, while 84% are affiliated.

and in the USA "However, it’s also important to point out that a majority of these “nones” [no religious affiliation] (61%) still say they believe in God or a universal spirit."

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...ined-slightly/

Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 01-30-2018 at 11:51 PM..
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Old 01-30-2018, 11:47 PM
 
12,482 posts, read 13,108,284 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tired of the Nonsense View Post
Nor does science seek to undermine religion. Science is about discovering what is true, and religion is about establishing and maintaining a set doctrine. Science is not intended to be the foe of religion. It just works out that way.
what's true is that 84% of the world affiliates with religion, and most people have no problem with science and religion.

"But recent Pew Research Center polling suggests that about seven-in-ten (68%) U.S. adults did not see a conflict between science and their own religious beliefs."
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Old 01-30-2018, 11:52 PM
 
2,827 posts, read 1,755,851 times
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100-16 is 84.

But my point still stands. Unaffiliated =/= atheist.

The unaffiliated is broen between about 7-8% unaffiliated religious (private worshipers) about 5% agnostic, and 1-2% seriously atheist.

The population of people who technically do believe in God/gods/religion is not accounting for ppl who have defected from temples, because they believe nobody wants them.

Because there isn't one. 7/10 are sane and realize that stuff they learned in science class isn't mutually exclusive with religion. The orther 3/10 are hardcore fundies or atheist science types. I've talked about this in another thread. Not exclusive.
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Old 01-31-2018, 06:50 AM
 
6,272 posts, read 1,518,571 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shorman View Post
I don't understand why you call this a dilemma. It is just people deciding that religion has no role to play in their lives. I know some religious people have a hard time understanding this, but for an increasing number of people religion is not a part of their lives at all. It is not a dilemma or tough choice, religious beliefs are simply meaningless and irrelevant to some people.

"Teenagers even say family, friends, money, music and even reality television are more important than religion." How can anyone argue with the truth of this statement? That is a much more healthy approach to life than living in constant paralyzing fear of pissing off sky daddy.

Fundamentalists are exempt from this because they are fundamentalists. Their entire worldview is shaped by being a believer. Those people wouldn't know how to function without the crutch of religion and their faith that they are special to an invisible deity.
Well, since religion has always been used as method to keep the public under control, it definitely would be a real problem if young people are becoming less religious!
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Old 01-31-2018, 07:39 AM
 
Location: Under Moon & Star
1,592 posts, read 563,898 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
Well, since religion has always been used as method to keep the public under control, it definitely would be a real problem if young people are becoming less religious!
Again, you use the condition 'would'.

This is not a hypothetical.

People like you constantly assert that in the absence of religious belief, people would does bad things. In this case, you suggest that people would be 'out of control'. We can measure 'religiosity' by rates of church attendance and professed belief. We can measure 'bad' by rates of violent crime (assault rape, murder). Thereby, we can test your claim. And when we do, it turns out that it's false.

The most religious part of the United States? The South.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...by_religiosity

The part of the United States with the most violent crime? The South.
https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/node/5934
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s...tables/table-2

Canada - less religious and less violent crime than the United States.

Western Europe - less religious and less violent crime than Eastern Europe.

Northern Europe - less religious and less violent crime than Southern Europe.

Most of the world - less religious and less violent crime than the Middle East.

The claim that, absent religion, people are bad is a lie.

And the peddlers of this lie invariable use the conditional tense because they believe in dogma above evidence. They know, beyond all doubt, that what they assert is true. And they are careful not to let the real world intrude on what they've decided must be so.

That's faith for you. Empty claims made in direct contrast to what actually happens.
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Old 01-31-2018, 07:43 AM
 
34,565 posts, read 8,914,192 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
i recall from the Pew research that 84% of the world population identifies with religion, and another 9% believes in God. so that is 93% of the world accepts religion or God.

So for most people science and religion are very compatible. to the tune of 93% of the world.
90% of the world are not scientists, so that they don't see science and religion as incompatible (which is a conclusion that you assert rather than demonstrate) is no validation that they are. Expertise, not numbers,is the criterion here. You cannot eliminate disease by an overwhelming vote that it has been eradicated.

Moreover, while Creationists may say that they are perfectly ok with science, and are completely scientific, in actual fact they vehemently oppose science and are not at all scientific.
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Old 01-31-2018, 07:57 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
18,931 posts, read 8,888,619 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
i said clearly 84% with religion plus 9% more with God = 93% with religion or with God
And how does that relate to your claim that, "So for most people science and religion are very compatible. to the tune of 93% of the world."?
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