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Old 01-30-2018, 05:38 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,070 posts, read 8,539,462 times
Reputation: 6003

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGrandK-Man View Post
"In an AOG church, the worship
experience is immersive by design.
Part of that is a high volume level,
particularly for the younger people.
You're going to get a LOT of pushback
I'll wager.
"


In our AoG, the congregation range from 3 to 83, and the push-back I did get was from members of the worship team, all younger than me.

Remember, this push for louder worship sound volume started about 7 months ago, and I have been going to this church for nearly 4 years, the latter three as a member. So it was not this loud when I first started attending. And you know what? On Sundays when my wife and I were away, some congregants said the band volume was out of control! I wasn't at the soundboard running the sound those days.
The only AOG church I ever actually attended was a megachurch with a couple thousand attending on a bad day, and I confess I had that memory in my head when replying to you. If the church is that small, and the push is coming from the musicians, then you have a lot more influence that I originally thought.

With this extra info it's sounding a lot more like over-enthusiastic musicians wrongly thinking that if they only crank the volume up loud enough everyone will enjoy that as much as they do. Your job sounds like simply conveying to them they are serving the congregation, not the inverse.

If you're a typical volunteer you have no real authority so it might be helpful to have the support of the pastor. But even absent that ... you sound like you're trying too hard to make nice, to the point of letting the musicians be a__holes. Just be the elder statesman and representative of what is, apparently, the desires of the congregation.

Also, try appealing to their artistry. Musicianship isn't all (or even mostly!) about decibels. Less is more. To use an organ analogy you might relate too ... it sounds like they're playing with the swell fully open and all stops drawn all the time. Leave something in reserve for rare use so that it really makes a statement.
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Old 01-30-2018, 06:31 PM
 
3,410 posts, read 1,247,977 times
Reputation: 935
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGrandK-Man View Post
I have been attending a lovely, Spirit-led AG church now for nearly four years. I have been running their sound for a good part of that time, but lately I feel that the volume level has gotten out of hand.

They recently installed a digital audio console that is largely set and forget, but even when I was running the sound the levels they demanded from me, lately, bordered on the painful to listen to.

This is unfortunate because my wife and I both go there, and feel that we are growing in God together. The Pastor, in his mid-sixties, is very down to Earth and isn't afraid to preach the good and bad in the Bible, so that we have a good grasp of God's word.


I have even considered going back to the 'pipe organ' Lutheran I grew up in(I'm not really a fan of rock n roll worship song), but everyone I've talked to says it isn't a good idea for spouses to attend separate churches, even Christian ones.
Did Jesus worship with music? Ask yourself, and honestly answer the question from your own heart!

If you are brave enough and have an open mind then dig some research and you will probably find that Jesus worshipped in peace and serenity. He postrated in pray like the Muslims prayers are done.

This music introduction into the churches was only a way to attract more people because music creates an addiction. There is no message of Jesus in music. It's only a money making industry.
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Old 01-30-2018, 07:35 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,070 posts, read 8,539,462 times
Reputation: 6003
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
There is no message of Jesus in music. It's only a money making industry.
Said the Muslim, to the Christian who makes zero money volunteering for his music ministry. For the benefit of a congregation that claims to get all sorts of inspiration from the music -- when it's not rendering them deaf.

You believers are pretty amusing sometimes ... arguing about how loud music should be, whether music is of the devil to begin with ... don't you ever get weary of it?
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Old 01-30-2018, 07:50 PM
 
Location: minnesota
5,224 posts, read 1,661,120 times
Reputation: 1828
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
Said the Muslim, to the Christian who makes zero money volunteering for his music ministry. For the benefit of a congregation that claims to get all sorts of inspiration from the music -- when it's not rendering them deaf.

You believers are pretty amusing sometimes ... arguing about how loud music should be, whether music is of the devil to begin with ... don't you ever get weary of it?
He does have a point. from the link I posted.

Itís an Altered State. According to Blesser, loud music can cause an altered state of consciousness because of the highjacking of the senses mentioned above. ďIf youíre listening to really loud music, you canít think straight. You canít even focus on what youíre seeing,Ē he says. Essentially, it suppresses your other senses and changes how you perceive the world. He goes on to say, ďA teenagerís proclivity for loud music is not unlike a teenagerís proclivity for alcohol and drugs.Ē Teenagers like to experience the world in new and different ways, and the altered state of mind accompanied by listening to loud music is no exception.
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Old 01-30-2018, 09:35 PM
 
Location: Cleaning CAT VOMIT out of radiators
1,890 posts, read 618,639 times
Reputation: 1555
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoreau424 View Post
That's a hard call. Seems reasonable - and sane - to try to bring down the volume. Maybe you can get them to explain the benefit to high volume. Listen to their answers, and see if they make any sense. All I can imagine is that they'll say that it's necessary to bring in people, or keep them, but that's sort of a crock. There's nothing biblical about that. It'd just be worldly or churchy/religious, not anything spiritually or biblically based.

You could bring up things like safety levels, that it's harder to hear God's "still small voice" if all we want is volume, that worship in Jesus' time never needed electrical reinforcement, etc. You might find a good video somewhere (YouTube?) where someone's maybe discussed all of this, so it would be a neutral person explaining it.

Try these things, but look for the hearts and minds of the response. See if they're too caught up with this trend to wake up. This may be out of control and unresolvable. It's maybe come to that point. Maybe another church will be better for you and for God.

Well, as far as re-churching goes, I feel that our present church overall has enhanced our relationship with God. And it would be indeed a tough sell to get my wife to go along back to my Lutheran nearby, or to any other church for that matter. On days when the worship volume is exceptionally loud, she will just sit back a row or two from her customary pew. And our friends and fellow church-goers have verbalized that they believe that 'his church'/'her church' would not be good for our marriage.

I'm presently thinking of sitting out the 30-35min worship portion of service, and coming up from the basement fellowship hall only when I hear the Pastor commencing benediction and announcement of offering collection. Then I know the sermon, the meat of the service, which I record and distribute on CD, is soon to follow.

Last edited by TheGrandK-Man; 01-30-2018 at 09:50 PM..
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Old 01-30-2018, 09:37 PM
 
Location: Cleaning CAT VOMIT out of radiators
1,890 posts, read 618,639 times
Reputation: 1555
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
Did Jesus worship with music? Ask yourself, and honestly answer the question from your own heart!

If you are brave enough and have an open mind then dig some research and you will probably find that Jesus worshipped in peace and serenity. He postrated in pray like the Muslims prayers are done.

This music introduction into the churches was only a way to attract more people because music creates an addiction. There is no message of Jesus in music. It's only a money making industry.
Even if His name is in the lyrics? "What a beautiful Name it is, the Name of Jesus..."?
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Old 01-30-2018, 09:51 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
26,127 posts, read 14,044,953 times
Reputation: 10044
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGrandK-Man View Post
I have been attending a lovely, Spirit-led AG church now for nearly four years. I have been running their sound for a good part of that time, but lately I feel that the volume level has gotten out of hand.

They recently installed a digital audio console that is largely set and forget, but even when I was running the sound the levels they demanded from me, lately, bordered on the painful to listen to.

This is unfortunate because my wife and I both go there, and feel that we are growing in God together. The Pastor, in his mid-sixties, is very down to Earth and isn't afraid to preach the good and bad in the Bible, so that we have a good grasp of God's word.


I have even considered going back to the 'pipe organ' Lutheran I grew up in(I'm not really a fan of rock n roll worship song), but everyone I've talked to says it isn't a good idea for spouses to attend separate churches, even Christian ones.
Alright - another sound guy.

What's the general db level during the worship?

Our worship was loud (around 95dbA, 103 dbC at times)... and the worship leader and I would go back and forth... he wanted it loud so that he could get what he wanted... but I knew it was too loud in the room.

Years later and two worship ministers later, I figured out how to run the board at better levels where I can everyone what they need without it being too loud.

But I feel your pain being a sound guy and knowing that it's too loud. I am definitely not a set it and forget it guy.
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Old 01-31-2018, 07:47 AM
 
Location: Cleaning CAT VOMIT out of radiators
1,890 posts, read 618,639 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Alright - another sound guy.

What's the general db level during the worship?

Our worship was loud (around 95dbA, 103 dbC at times)... and the worship leader and I would go back and forth... he wanted it loud so that he could get what he wanted... but I knew it was too loud in the room.

Years later and two worship ministers later, I figured out how to run the board at better levels where I can everyone what they need without it being too loud.

But I feel your pain being a sound guy and knowing that it's too loud. I am definitely not a set it and forget it guy.
Another problem is our sanctuary itself is small: 70' deep by 40' wide, roof peaks out at 20' high. Altar/stage is 24" elevated above main floor.

Mackie 12" powered pair mains, two 10" Behringers wedges plus new IEMs for monitoring. Operating this system in unity(PFLs around 0dB RMS, input faders between -5 to 0, Mains at 0), would blow out my hometown 130'x50'x40' Lutheran ELCA organ church! Let alone our little sanctuary. lol!

So for most of the time I was running everything at less than optimal levels - input gain PFLs -5 to -10, mix faders between -15 to -10, Mains at -5, and volume was still barely tolerable. Mackie mains levels at 12 o'clock. Now with new digital mixer and saved 'scenes' for both us and our tenant Spanish speaking church, levels have crept back upward toward almost painful.

So basically it's difficult to run even a modest system, like ours, in it's 'zone' without deafening half the congregation and even disturbing private residences within 100' of such a small sanctuary.

Yet my Pastor continues to proclaim to me "if you think this is loud you should hear how the Spanish group ran their worship - the whole(adjoining) parsonage house shook" Until they agreed to turn it down - a little.
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Old 01-31-2018, 08:19 AM
 
Location: Willamette valley, oregon
2,315 posts, read 627,852 times
Reputation: 3290
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGrandK-Man View Post
Another problem is our sanctuary itself is small: 70' deep by 40' wide, roof peaks out at 20' high. Altar/stage is 24" elevated above main floor.

Mackie 12" powered pair mains, two 10" Behringers wedges plus new IEMs for monitoring. Operating this system in unity(PFLs around 0dB RMS, input faders between -5 to 0, Mains at 0), would blow out my hometown 130'x50'x40' Lutheran ELCA organ church! Let alone our little sanctuary. lol!

So for most of the time I was running everything at less than optimal levels - input gain PFLs -5 to -10, mix faders between -15 to -10, Mains at -5, and volume was still barely tolerable. Mackie mains levels at 12 o'clock. Now with new digital mixer and saved 'scenes' for both us and our tenant Spanish speaking church, levels have crept back upward toward almost painful.

So basically it's difficult to run even a modest system, like ours, in it's 'zone' without deafening half the congregation and even disturbing private residences within 100' of such a small sanctuary.

Yet my Pastor continues to proclaim to me "if you think this is loud you should hear how the Spanish group ran their worship - the whole(adjoining) parsonage house shook" Until they agreed to turn it down - a little.
They make these cool little devices known as "ear plugs". Check them out!
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Old 01-31-2018, 10:49 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,070 posts, read 8,539,462 times
Reputation: 6003
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGrandK-Man View Post
Yet my Pastor continues to proclaim to me "if you think this is loud you should hear how the Spanish group ran their worship - the whole(adjoining) parsonage house shook" Until they agreed to turn it down - a little.
So your pastor is an inconsiderate, disacknowledging, gaslighting jerk. Yet you get spiritual nourishment from him somehow. I confess I have no useful advice to give you.
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