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Old 02-11-2018, 04:01 AM
bUU
 
Location: Georgia
11,494 posts, read 7,814,194 times
Reputation: 7449

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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
That's fine, because I found the tone of your comments to be dismissive of other than your own views from the very beginning.
... dismissive of the point of view that would knowingly leave innocents in society at continued risk. I plead guilty.

It's sad that some people are so caught up in their rationalizations that they couldn't really care less what real harm those rationalizations bring about. The elevation of preferences over honor and civic responsibility is abhorrent given the specific consequences such mis-prioritization has inflicted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
Do I think this makes him a bad man? No, life isn't that simple. I think it makes him a flawed man, and tiptoeing around this flaw is not going to be helpful or appropriate in this situation in which the welfare of the weakest among us are at stake.
Pope Francis is a red herring in this, as I indicated earlier. He's among the very best of the lot - the problem is that the lot, itself, is grievously and unforgivably flawed, clinging to the kind of rationalizations that I highlighted above as if without them the whole structure would collapse (and I don't doubt that that might be the case). Francis has done a lot - a lot - to turn away from legacy corruption, but it is not humanly possible to be utterly clean in such a situation even if it was your intention. You cannot fix the crossbeam while the pillars holding the crossbeam up are crumbling. You need to hold things together as best as you can while you're doing the best as you can to make things better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
On the other hand, you could simply respond as if she had omitted the first two words. Dismissing her actual points because of one phrase makes no more sense than her assigning her perception of a group to you personally.
Rewarding such behavior only encourages it.

Last edited by bUU; 02-11-2018 at 04:10 AM..
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Old 02-11-2018, 07:36 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,046 posts, read 8,213,649 times
Reputation: 5974
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
She?!?!?
Sorry. With all the genderless handles around here, I never know what pronoun to use. Had you confused with someone else.
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Old 02-12-2018, 02:16 PM
 
Location: 'greater' Buffalo, NY
2,573 posts, read 1,751,500 times
Reputation: 3306
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
The hallmark of an ignorant or uninformed poster is the resort to attacking the character of a person instead of addressing the relevant issues. It is very prevalent in our society at large and especially so in this forum. This not very subtle attack on the Pope's character is just one of the many instances of it.
It's in fact merely a listing of the three logical possibilities here. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Old 02-12-2018, 02:26 PM
Status: "A subtle racist is still a racist" (set 8 days ago)
 
Location: Colorado Springs
16,482 posts, read 7,852,863 times
Reputation: 16370
Instead of just insulting the pope, I have outlined 3 things that need to happen. Let me review them:

1. The hierarchy of the Catholic Church needs to say enough is enough, and change their rules. At the very least they need to make child abuse as serious an act as breaking the confidentiality of the confessional. But even better -- everyone follows the law, or else suffer the consequences. As far as I am concerned, end the sacrament of confession altogether; if they already believe people can pray to god, then there is no reason people can't confess directly to god.
2. Legislatures need to outlaw the confidentiality of the confessional when crimes are committed.
3. Catholic parents need to make a bold statement by stopping providing priests access to their children. And be very public about it.
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Old 02-12-2018, 02:47 PM
 
36,183 posts, read 24,316,126 times
Reputation: 5733
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Marcinkiewicz View Post
It's in fact merely a listing of the three logical possibilities here. Nothing more, nothing less.
Who decides what the logical possibilities are, how many there are, and how they know what the Pope considers? The arrogance and presumptuousness are blatant.
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Old 02-12-2018, 03:06 PM
Status: "A subtle racist is still a racist" (set 8 days ago)
 
Location: Colorado Springs
16,482 posts, read 7,852,863 times
Reputation: 16370
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Who decides what the logical possibilities are, how many there are, and how they know what the Pope considers? The arrogance and presumptuousness are blatant.
More tap dancing. Do you have a solution to the problem? Yes, or no. And if you do, what is it?
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Old 02-12-2018, 03:19 PM
 
36,183 posts, read 24,316,126 times
Reputation: 5733
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
More tap dancing. Do you have a solution to the problem? Yes, or no. And if you do, what is it?
I have no responsibility to solve a sexual problem that is actually endemic to society at large. My solution was NOT to allow anyone private access to my children, period.
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Old 02-12-2018, 03:27 PM
 
Location: 'greater' Buffalo, NY
2,573 posts, read 1,751,500 times
Reputation: 3306
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Who decides what the logical possibilities are, how many there are, and how they know what the Pope considers? The arrogance and presumptuousness are blatant.
Given the contradiction between the pope's statement that 'no victims had come forward' and the commission's finding as detailed by the AP in the USA Today article, the three possibilities outlined in the thread title are the *only* possibilities, unless you wish to devise a new system of logic.
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Old 02-12-2018, 03:35 PM
Status: "A subtle racist is still a racist" (set 8 days ago)
 
Location: Colorado Springs
16,482 posts, read 7,852,863 times
Reputation: 16370
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
I have no responsibility to solve a sexual problem that is actually endemic to society at large. My solution was NOT to allow anyone private access to my children, period.
That's actually one of the three solutions I suggested.
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Old 02-12-2018, 03:37 PM
 
Location: 'greater' Buffalo, NY
2,573 posts, read 1,751,500 times
Reputation: 3306
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
That's actually one of the three solutions I suggested.
He probably objects to the specific mention of priests.
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