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Old 02-05-2018, 12:48 PM
 
4,583 posts, read 2,268,956 times
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Some people think the ' Babylon ' of Revelation 17 is referring to the Middle East.
Since Revelation is written in very-vivid word pictures then Babylon the Great is 'symbolic' of something.
She is a figurative woman and a figurative city. Babylon the Great is global or international in scope.
She sits on many ' waters ' as per Rev. 17:1. Those ' waters ' stand for 'people' as per Rev. 17:15; Isaiah 57:20.
Because she commits fornication with earth's kings ( aka political leaders ) then she is Not political - Rev. 17:2
Because earth's merchants ( aka business men ) weep and mourn over her then she is Not commercial - Rev. 18:11-19
That leaves symbolic 'Babylon the Great' to stand for or represent the world's religious groups.

As the people migrated out of ancient Babylon they took with them their religious practices and ideas.
They took their religious-myth ideas and spread them world wide into a greater religious Babylon or Babylon the Great.
That is why stemming from ancient Babylon we see so many similar or overlapping ideas in today's religious realm.

The world's religious groups, their religious kingdoms, think they sit as some sort of religious ' queen ' - Rev. 18:7
A ' queen ' who will never see mourning or sorrow. Such religious organizations have given their blessings to the political as she tries to put influence over them.
However, now 'Babylon the Great' is seeing her 'waters' (people who support her now drying up spiritually) but she will Not just dry up and fade away.
As she attempts to bend earth's kings (political rulers) to to do ' her ' will, soon the political realm will tire of her influence and go against her.
Perhaps even a bad economy will make the wealth the religions have amassed look easy for their taking.
So, in the soon coming future the political militarized 'horns' will turn on world-wide religious Babylon the Great.
Because Christendom (Christian mostly 'in name only') corresponds to un-faithful Jerusalem of the year 70, then she will be the first to go, the first for the political (earth's kings/rulers) to eradicate Babylon the Great.
- 1st Peter 4:17
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Old 02-05-2018, 02:16 PM
 
Location: The backwoods of Pennsylvania ... unfortunately.
5,564 posts, read 3,135,145 times
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First of all, I know your post was inspired by a post I wrote saying that Babylon is NOT the Middle East. Yeah, remember, I said it *wasn't*. I know ancient Babylon was in modern day Iraq, and I said that Iraq is not Babylon. It's Iraq.

So I hope you weren't referring to me as "some people."

Though you're probably right -- some people probably DO think Babylon the Great is the Middle East.

Secondly, yeah, I took those "Intro to Fiction" courses in college, too. I remember sitting around for an hour three times a week analyzing symbolism in stories, and I remember, too, thinking, "Is that what the author actually meant when he wrote this? Or are we wasting our time reading waaaay too much into these stories." I always thought that if the author could show up in our classroom, he or she would be stupified at just how much meaning we were giving to things that actually had no significance or symbolic reference at all.

That's how I feel about Revelation. Oh sure, I'm confident that the author had something in mind when he wrote it -- many think Revelations refers to Rome. Not to mention the author was half-mad anyway.

One may as well study the ramblings of any aslyum inmate in an attempt to gleen a peek into the future.
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Old 02-05-2018, 02:20 PM
 
Location: Divided Tribes of America
12,920 posts, read 4,931,025 times
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I didn’t know there was a Babylon anymore. Except for in Civilization 4.

Yes, I like my retro computer games.
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Old 02-05-2018, 02:31 PM
 
7,860 posts, read 6,668,091 times
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Most of these devil like Babylon the harlot and the false prophet spirit are fallen angels who have spiritual kingdoms in the world who influence man ..... Like the liberal spirit in the world is a kingdom of darkness which fallen angels claim spiritual authority , where people ideas are profoundly different to other people , as divisions is a work of these monsters who influence man , and man finds their ideas familiar , so it is how we think ... See these unseen spiritual fallen angels are very real and Not just a conjecture of ideas , but a real menace to man.............
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Old 02-05-2018, 02:41 PM
 
37,514 posts, read 25,243,901 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina View Post
Secondly, yeah, I took those "Intro to Fiction" courses in college, too. I remember sitting around for an hour three times a week analyzing symbolism in stories, and I remember, too, thinking, "Is that what the author actually meant when he wrote this? Or are we wasting our time reading waaaay too much into these stories." I always thought that if the author could show up in our classroom, he or she would be stupefied at just how much meaning we were giving to things that actually had no significance or symbolic reference at all.
This put me in mind of my earliest reaction to the many insights attributed to Shakespeare by Ph.D.'s of English literature. They reminded me of the many attributions by art critics to the intentions of the Chimpanzee who painted an "abstract work of art."
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Old 02-05-2018, 02:44 PM
Status: "Just crying wolf" (set 14 days ago)
 
5,294 posts, read 1,331,058 times
Reputation: 805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
Some people think the ' Babylon ' of Revelation 17 is referring to the Middle East.
Since Revelation is written in very-vivid word pictures then Babylon the Great is 'symbolic' of something.
She is a figurative woman and a figurative city. Babylon the Great is global or international in scope.
She sits on many ' waters ' as per Rev. 17:1. Those ' waters ' stand for 'people' as per Rev. 17:15; Isaiah 57:20.
Because she commits fornication with earth's kings ( aka political leaders ) then she is Not political - Rev. 17:2
Because earth's merchants ( aka business men ) weep and mourn over her then she is Not commercial - Rev. 18:11-19
That leaves symbolic 'Babylon the Great' to stand for or represent the world's religious groups.

As the people migrated out of ancient Babylon they took with them their religious practices and ideas.
They took their religious-myth ideas and spread them world wide into a greater religious Babylon or Babylon the Great.
That is why stemming from ancient Babylon we see so many similar or overlapping ideas in today's religious realm.

The world's religious groups, their religious kingdoms, think they sit as some sort of religious ' queen ' - Rev. 18:7
A ' queen ' who will never see mourning or sorrow. Such religious organizations have given their blessings to the political as she tries to put influence over them.
However, now 'Babylon the Great' is seeing her 'waters' (people who support her now drying up spiritually) but she will Not just dry up and fade away.
As she attempts to bend earth's kings (political rulers) to to do ' her ' will, soon the political realm will tire of her influence and go against her.
Perhaps even a bad economy will make the wealth the religions have amassed look easy for their taking.
So, in the soon coming future the political militarized 'horns' will turn on world-wide religious Babylon the Great.
Because Christendom (Christian mostly 'in name only') corresponds to un-faithful Jerusalem of the year 70, then she will be the first to go, the first for the political (earth's kings/rulers) to eradicate Babylon the Great.
- 1st Peter 4:17
No, John was not writing of the literal country of Babylon. But I'm wondering if you might be surprised at what is "name-only Christianity".
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Old 02-05-2018, 03:33 PM
 
2,827 posts, read 1,755,316 times
Reputation: 988
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirina View Post
Secondly, yeah, I took those "Intro to Fiction" courses in college, too. I remember sitting around for an hour three times a week analyzing symbolism in stories, and I remember, too, thinking, "Is that what the author actually meant when he wrote this? Or are we wasting our time reading waaaay too much into these stories." I always thought that if the author could show up in our classroom, he or she would be stupified at just how much meaning we were giving to things that actually had no significance or symbolic reference at all.
On the contrary.

"Fiction" is usually a clever way of saying "autobiography." The successful writer is instructed to "write what you know." It is possible to read it wrong, yes. But it also very possible to have the author deny up and down that this is what something means because they don't like being found out.

Now about this biblical passage...

Revelation IS referring to that Babylon, or rather... the way prophecies work is they run on something called branched causality. Meaning, events turn out a certain way, but depending on how people react, there may be more than one possible future.

Revelation talks about two very likely scenarios using very odd euphemisms:
1. People will oppose the Christ. They will set up supergovernments like the EU (dividing the world into 10 kingdoms). Because of this, they will become corrupt and warlike groups in the Middle East will start making trouble in the neighborhood. Leaders will become despotic and actively persecute Christians, at best calling them deplorable and at worst start trying to physically threaten their safety. There will be a system where people are forced to opt in or they can't buy and sell. Things get to the point where things kinda fall apart, then God will come to put things right. But before that, it mentions a literal bloodbath (about 1/3 of humanity dying).
2. Believe it or not, all of these four horsemen stuff do not have to happen. It the majority of people were to instead stand with the Christ and the stand against big government, dictatorships, and those who seek to work evil, when stuff goes weird, God's kingdom will simply come. It is a matter of whether to embrace Christ's kingdom or be dragged into it kicking and screaming and die horribly first.

And it will happen. This world is temporary. It is a product of our thoughts, everything from technology to the Earth itself is a sort of waking dream. When Jesus comes, he comes to wake us up.
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Old 02-06-2018, 08:54 AM
 
6,243 posts, read 1,515,119 times
Reputation: 4527
Think about it, what modern nation was formed as a melting pot of different races? What nation do many other nations seek to do business with, either by importing or exporting? What nation has corrupted others with their immorality?
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Old 02-06-2018, 01:56 PM
 
4,583 posts, read 2,268,956 times
Reputation: 339
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
Think about it, what modern nation was formed as a melting pot of different races? What nation do many other nations seek to do business with, either by importing or exporting? What nation has corrupted others with their immorality?
However, the 'city' of ancient Babylon was Not a nation at the time of Genesis 10:10; Genesis 11:2.
As the people left that city they took with them their religious-myth concepts and ideas and spread similar ideas around the world creating a greater religious Babylon or Babylon the Great.

The ' modern nation ' alluded to above stands today, but stands at the feet of the huge statue image of Daniel chapter 2 where we read about the rise and fall of great political powers starting with a head of gold and ending in feet mixed of iron and clay. As we know iron and clay do Not mix or stay together, so the nation at the statue's feet is now on shakey legs.
Seems as if we are at the ' time of the toes' - Daniel 2:42-44. Perhaps, we are more likely at the ' time of the toenails ' before God's figurative kingdom ' stone ' strikes the feet - Daniel 2:34-35,45
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Old 02-06-2018, 02:11 PM
 
4,583 posts, read 2,268,956 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
No, John was not writing of the literal country of Babylon. But I'm wondering if you might be surprised at what is "name-only Christianity".
Right, Not a country but the 'city' of ancient Babylon of Genesis 10:10; 11:2.
Babylon the Great is Not referred to as a country or a nation but as a prostitute and a 'city' - Rev. 17:18
I find Jesus describes "name-only Christianity " at Matthew 7:20-23. ( fruits such as: belief, teaching and behavior )
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